Good morning everybody and welcome to this webinar on how to boost the human touchpoint in customer service. We have been looking very much forward to this next hour, me and then Jesper Plåhel Larsen from Haberg Lloyd, I will introduce them a little bit later. And we are looking very much forward to the next little hour, 50 minutes, where we will be looking on different aspects of customer service and mainly why we actually need to focus even more on the human touch in customer service these days. What we also will do within the next 50 minutes or so is to introduce what we call the four step model and especially how we can use this to create outstanding customer service experience for our customers. And finally, what we also will do in the next little hour is to look into how Haberg Lloyd, which is the case here, have improved their customer service with a lot of different initiatives. So that is the program for the next little hour and we are very glad that you are attending this webinar. It is a webinar, there is a lot of attendees signed up for this and in order to make this work, we have a live chat going on so I will be able to see if you have questions, comments on the way. So in order to make sure that this chat is working and also just to have a feel of who we have a feeling of who we have attending on this webinar. I would kindly ask you just to chip in in the chat now with your name, your role, your company and maybe also where you are located physically right now. So that will be a way and if you have while you are doing now writing in to the chat, if you have questions on the way or comments, please just feel free to put that into the chat. And then I will try to handle it on the way. And we will also at the end of the session have a Q&A where you are able to ask questions as well to me and our guest Jesper. So and I can see that we have a couple of people already signing in. So that is really appreciated. Thank you. And now I will actually start with the topic of today while you are maybe just putting in your name and the facts in the chat. Because the topic of today is how to actually create exceptional customer service experience. And that is actually an extreme demand for that these days. And maybe the demands is actually or the challenges are bigger than ever. I mean, I guess we all know what the customer service functions is meeting these days. I mean, the whole technological development, the last couple of years have created a lot of demands on customer service. Customers expect us to be available 24 seven in different channels, being the home page, the web, the phone, everything. So that gives us a lot of challenges in the customer service. Moreover, the whole integration of our IT systems is also creating a lot of demands. Because when our customers are reaching out to customer service, they actually expect that all the kind of data that they have given us or input, that can be seen by customer service. But on the other hand, it actually also holds a lot of opportunities because it actually gives us much better opportunities to create even more personalized service. And also maybe to be more proactive and reach out to customers in another way that we have done previously. So this whole new setup, you can say, or the development creates a lot of demands, but also opportunities. However, what we also see is some dark clouds on the horizon, so to speak, and some unfortunate trends around us, we have seen some unfortunate trends around us when we look on the customer service environment. And one being that we, within the last couple of years, have seen a downturn in the economy. And a lot of companies are actually putting pressure on the cost to serve costs, which also hits the customer service function. Another thing that is happening is what we will see unbalanced investment, because we see a lot of investment still in customer service, but it's very much towards this technological agenda, which means that the, you can say, the human touch point is maybe lacking some of that investment, which also leads to a fact that we have seen a lot of places, namely that the customer service function sometimes feel a little bit neglected in this perspective. And that is seen from an internal point of view, but on the other side, we see a lot of investment. And from the external point of view, customers might feel this as experience an inconsistent customer experience, simply that maybe they have been on the internet or some other channels, and then finally, when they meet our customer service function, there is simply an inconsistency in their experience. And another thing that we also see when we talk about the human touch point is that many, many organizations are using NPS as a kind of indicator for how good customer service we are doing. Unfortunately, what we also see is very much focus on the lagging indicators and maybe not so much on the leading indicators, meaning the behavior that is leading to either a good or a bad NPS score. And then, that is actually all of this is really unfortunate. As you can say, the customer service function is very often the last station or the last step before customers churn. Not always, of course, but when a customer is about to churn, very often they touch base with the customer service as one of the last stops. So, all of this is actually pointing in the wrong direction, you can say. And it's actually also proven on an overall scale when we look on some of the stats that we can look into. For example, the American Customer Satisfaction Index has been on steady increase for some decades, but the last couple of years, it has actually declined. So, overall customer satisfaction is decreasing. And we also see these are U.S. figures, but we also see a tendency to a very high churn in customer service centers. And then, the final point here, I think many of us can relate to, that we are also getting a little tired of these chatbots that we are meeting. So, finally, when we want to get a problem solved that that chatbot cannot solve, then we call customer service. And then, hopefully, they are there to help us. So, these are some of the things that points towards the reason why we should focus on the human touch in the customer service. And I'm just looking down here to see where people are reaching in from. So, a lot of people in from both Sweden and Australia. So, that's very nice. So, let's get going here because these things are, of course, pointing in the wrong direction. So, when we talk about customer service, we can basically, to make it very simple, we can talk about three levels of customer service. One being the bad customer service experience, which is maybe not where we deliver something that the people or the customers don't expect. That is, we can still deliver a good service. No, bad customer service experience is when customers are not feel, or when I'm as a customer, I feel that I'm not feeling. We can still be treated with respect. That is, we can still be treated with respect. That is what we characterize as a bad customer experience. Then, we have the good one, where I get what I expect. And finally, the third level is the outstanding, where I get more than expected and I get this wow feeling of really getting something extra. Now, I can see the chat is working. What I would like you to do now is actually just to think of a customer experience, the experience you have had lately. I think all of us are customers either privately, where we buy a cup of coffee or train ticket, or work-wise, where we have actually ordered something from a vendor. So, if I can ask you just to think about one of your latest customer experience, and then in the chat, write whether that has been a bad or an outstanding or a good one, and maybe also even you can mention the name of it. Just an example. I have some index cards here, where I have put up, it could be a bad one that I had lately with a conference center, and then I had also a very outstanding one in a shop called Marathon Sport here in Copenhagen lately. So, could you please, in the chat, maybe write your customer experience that you remember, and just write bad or outstanding, and if you want, the name of the company or the situation. It's not mandatory with the name. And I can see that we have the first ones coming, which was a horrible one. I will not mention the name here, but I can see that in the chat. But let us see what is coming. And I will just wait some seconds here to let you put in your bad, good or outstanding customer experience. So, we will see if anybody is chipping in here, other than Simon. So, thank you to you, Simon. We have not more coming, I hope. We have not more coming. We have some coming here, yes, from Lars and also Simon, another one. Yes. And I know there is a delay here in the chat, so I will just continue here. A great one here, yes. Horrible also. And now they are coming here. So, I just wait a little because I don't want to bias. I will just do a little here. And there you have some. And I can see it's kind of, there are some good ones. And actually more good ones than I normally see. Because what happens very often when we ask these questions out is that people tend to remember either like the first one we got from Simon here, a horrible one, or sometimes also the really great one, the last one, the outstanding one. So, what we very often tend to see is that people remember either the bad or the outstanding, whereas the good one is kind of sometimes forgotten, even though we get a lot of them. And that is very interesting when I see it from an NPS perspective, because what are really the experiences that stand out and that we remember? And the interesting thing also about outstanding experience is that if a good one is where we get what we expect, how do we then create the outstanding one? And that is where we are applying what we will call the extra mile mindset. So, these extra things that we can create. And the interesting thing is that if the good one is where we get the experience that we expect, how do we then create the outstanding? Because when we think about our expectations as a customer, we actually expect the customers to be, or the service to be fast, friendly, knowledgeable, and also we expect that the customer service function is solving my problem. So, how can we actually go from this, which we think is fairly good, into the extra mile? What does that mean? And that means that not only we have to do it fast, but we actually have to be delivering an engaged customer service experience. Friendly, yes, but even more so personalized. And yes, we need to have experience where we feel that the person next to me is knowledgeable, but even better so if I also get an experience where I learn something from the customer service experience here. And yes, solve my problems, but even better so even before I think about it myself. And this is something that characterized the extra mile mindset. And just as an example from my little that I chose here with my marathon sport, and I will make it very short. Privately, I was in that shop buying running shoes. I have been out buying running shoes for my son, or trying to. We had been in two shops before that where we got more or less the normal expected service. Then we went into this shop, a marathon sport in Copenhagen. And one of the things that struck me was how fast this shop assistant found out that my son's name, because it was running shoes for my son, my son's name is Rasmus. And very fast, and very fast found out, okay, what type of person he is. He's a handball player, but he's also running. And then he actually put him on a treadmill, analyzed his running style by an iPad, and already there, we have a good service level, I would say. And asked him, so how do you run? How many kilometers? It's typically four to five k's. And then here's the trick. When he has been seeing him running, he asked a question to my son here. Are you always running that fast, Rasmus? And my son, 19 years old, he's, yes, I am always running that fast. And then he asked, do you ever have problems with your heels or your Achilles? And my son, surprised me, well, actually, yes, I have. And then this shop assistant said, yeah, that is because you're running too fast. If you're running four or five k's, that is your distance, then you are running far too fast. And that is why you have problems. With your heels and Achilles. End of the story is that we, of course, leave this shop with, I would say, much too expensive running shoes. That's one thing. But even so, my son is kind of really high on energy and adrenaline almost because he said, wow, he actually told me something about my running style that my medical staff at the handball team could not tell me. So that is really an example of going that extra mile where it's just a mind-blowing experience. The thing is, in our everyday life in customer service, we have these moments of extra mile opportunities all the time. When we have customers calling in that cannot maybe find out our homepage or our way to order in the system or whatever, do we take that as an opportunity to teach them how to do it so they can do it themselves afterwards? Question mark. There could be a lot of examples on this. So we have these moments. And this is very much towards the single, you can say, moment. The question is, of course, how do we apply that as an organization? How do we put that into an organization and not only one person? And this is where we have found out that a model like what we call the four-step model works very good. Because what we have experienced in a lot of customer service functions is that there is very often a lack of a common language of what is good quality. And good quality in this four-step model, it's actually four simple steps that we need to do whenever we are in contact with the customers. And to simplify it very much, it's this four Cs called connect. So how is it that we connect with a customer in the beginning, either verbally or written? So these few seconds in the beginning means a lot for the whole experience. Then the second one, caring. How do we actually show that we care? Do we acknowledge the frustration or the situation on the other side? And do we actually understand the problem in depth before we go and try to find a solution? This is something that we very often see that people tend to go to the solution too fast. So, and when we are at the solution, do we actually customize it? The challenges in customer service that people call in, write in, when they have problems very often. Maybe we cannot deliver what they expect. How do we then customize a solution or communicate one thing in a good way? Before we, at the end, conclude, wrap up, and show the next step to the customer. So this is a model that is actually laying foundation. It is a common language for what good quality. And of course, within all of these, there are several elements that can be used and should be used. Now, as I said, this is something that we can install in an organization, but it takes time and it can be, let's say, installed in different levels. So when we look on customer service organizations, you can basically say that we can apply this in different levels. And this is also showing a little about the maturity level in organizations. So one being the level where we have no customer service standard at all. Then we begin to define that, of course, apply it both in inbound and outbound before we actually begin to reach a stage where we have it not only actively used, used in customer service, but also in other functions of the company, being finance, operations, wherever. And then at the end, the ideal solution is, of course, that we have this platform actually also used in IT integration. And that is where, when we look forward, the AI can also be a possibility. We will make a poll in a moment. We will make a poll in a moment. But before that, just to give you an example of how that can be used when we talk about IT. With AI, we have, for example, tools like speech analytics, where if we have laid the foundation with a good dialogue or the four-step model, we can actually use speech analytics to put in keywords, phrases, to actually analyze the whole thing, all our dialogues, and in this way, actually improve also the human touch. So this is actually a good way of combining both the technology and the human touch process in order to establish a fantastic level of customer service. But it all starts with the basis of creating the customer service standard, quality standard. And now, what I would like you to do, you can see on the screen now, the five levels. So just get a feeling here of where all you attendees in this webinar is on your side. We have just made a poll in the chat where we ask you on where you are on a maturity level from one to five here. And it is perfectly OK to be saying we have no standard at all because we experience that a lot when we are out working with customer service functions here. And I can see here the first ones are coming in here. And I will just give you some time here. So while we are waiting, and I can see here that level two and three are the ones that are leading right now, which are very nice to see that you have a common customer service standard in some form. So we are working with the application in most companies and working with the application to get it done. So what I see right now is that we are on level two and three mostly. It's a varying lid. But that is also kind of, yeah, not so surprisingly that we are maybe in the yellow frame here, where we have established some kind of quality, but maybe are working on a lot of different things. And that is, I think, and that is, I think, very, very interesting. And please keep on voting. But this is also a very interesting thing because the whole thing about how to implement a common quality standard is also what we will be looking to in when we have the case in a moment. Because when we want to make change happens, we also know what we see here on this one. One thing is to have tools, methods, processes, but if we really want to create a lasting effect, it needs to be backed up by management reinforcement. Then we can secure a lasting effect. And I think that is maybe one of the biggest challenges in many organizations. And that's also why I think the case that we will be looking on right now is so interesting, because it's actually an implementation happening worldwide in a global customer service organization. So I cannot hear your applause, but I hope you can see that. I hope you will welcome very much my guest here, Jesper Plohel Larsen from Hapag Lloyd. Welcome to you, Jesper. Thank you, René. Thank you for having me. I will also give the clicker to you, and then you can take us through the case of Hapag Lloyd. I certainly can, yeah. Yes. So I will leave it to you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to be able to give an opportunity to tell our story, what we did, in order to be an enabler for customer service. And certainly our customers business at the end of the day. Before we go into who Hapag Lloyd is, just very briefly, my name is Jesper, as René also said. I am heading up commercial learning in Hapag Lloyd, which effectively means designing, building, rolling out, training programs, learning journeys for sales and customer service. And today we will be focusing on customer service. We are, as René also mentioned, a global player. We are currently the fifth largest container carrier carrier carrier in the world. And, and I mean, you can see the numbers yourself here. Very strong tradition, very old company, more than 175 years old. And, and we are still going strong and we are still, we're still growing. And we have, as it also indicates here on the screen, 14,000 experts, both at sea and at land, handling our customers business. So that is in essence what we do. We try to be an enabler for our, our customers supply chains. If we wind back time to when we started this journey. So back in 2021, all our conversations with senior management and certainly also the frontline pointed back to our quality aspiration. So our strategy 2023 aspiration of being number one for quality in our industry. And that was sort of our point of departure when we started the journey. We also saw that reality, we did a reality check, we did a reality check, I would rather say, and we could see that as, as one indicator that, that we needed to do something was our NPO score was low. And lower than we could possibly both accept and, and where it should be. So, so that was sort of the point of departure, the strategy aspiration, NPS scores among, among many criteria we were looking at, and certainly also what is it that the frontline needs to be able to, to be an enabler for, and even better NPS score. Again, mentioning that customer service cannot do the work by, by themselves, obviously it requires a lot of efforts throughout the company. And some of them are actually mentioned here on, on this particular slide where we launched many digital solution, digital products for our customers. We have our, what we call quality promises, which in essence is some operational commitments. We have our customer service KPIs, which links and talks a lot about processes and systems and so on. And then last but not least, we launched the, the, the capability development program under, under the, the, the, the, let's say the, the, the commercial academy, which, which I'm heading up effectively. So there was a lot of initiatives that we had and launched simultaneously in the company. And again, capability building being one of them. If we, if we again, are in the time machine back in 2021, when we started the design phase and certainly also the pilot phase and so on, one of the dilemmas that we, that we saw was quantity versus quality. And for us, that means we are very good at data. We are very good at measuring KPIs and so on. And we are, and maybe to, to a large extent, looking too much into the quantitative measures and not so much, at least back then on how we, the human factor can play a role in terms of adding quality to the interactions with our customers. As an example, one of the things we saw was, you know, when we talk about customers and customers opening cases, inquiring information or maybe even complaining over something, which actually happens. We also saw that because we were so focused on the quantitative measure, a lot of the cases were being reopened simply because we did not put enough quality into closing the case, solving the problem, making sure that the customer was left. with the information that they needed to be able to drive things forward. So all in all, this was just an example of, or is just an example of where we, or what we were tapping into in order to see how can the human factor help us drive quality into the customer experience. Back then, we did both design and piloting a little bit in parallel. And some of the observations that we, that we did back then was that we didn't see any quality standards in the areas. We didn't see any uniform standards, anything that we could sort of tap into and look at as best practice and so on across the boards. I mean, we did have pockets of excellence, obviously, but, but no common global uniform either language or standard or anything. We also saw that for the training bits for customer service was largely focused on processes, systems and so on. And that also points back to our customer service KPIs, but not so much on the soft skills. So again, how do our customer service agents come across when they are dealing with our customers, which is of course, and should be at the, at the heart of everything we do. We also saw that our CS managers were, for better or worse, not being utilized to the extent that they could be in terms of being people leaders and not only being left as, which was the case as in many cases, escalation points. So that was also important for us to tap into that, let's say potential. And last but not least, what we also saw was the, the, the, the need was for something very hands-on, very operational, something that the, the learners, the participants could basically take straight from training and use immediately on the job, which, so, so, so, so some of these things were some key fundamentals for our, let's say design principles when we, when we embarked on the journey. And speaking of concepts and tools and so on, again, we, the, the mantra, the, the dogma here was that we wanted to make things easy, applicable, operational, hands-on. I mean, we can, we can put lots of words to that. And, and one of the things that we did was on the four steps that René was talking about. And then we have some, some, some, some tools that are sort of enabling each of the steps along the way so that, that regardless of what happens in a conversation with a customer and also in written communication for that matter, our customer service agents can fall back on the tools, the steps and so on as a, as a safe haven, as a, as a, as a bit of a saver, if you like. So, you know, come hell and high water. If you stick to the steps and the tools, you will be fine. That's sort of how we have tried now to massage and, and train and coach the tools, the, the methodology. into our customer service functions and leaders for that matter. Again, what we were looking for was, um, hands-on tools, but also an implementation that gave us immediate impact. Having said that, we know that Rome wasn't built in a day. And we also know that when we are dealing with human beings, certain things just takes times, you know, getting people to, to adopt and to utilize, internalize, and certainly be confident and comfortable with the tools takes time. However, and this points back to the tools, we wanted to make sure that it was easy, applicable, and easy to understand and ready for immediate use. Some of the things we also did to get to this immediate impact was to do role-specific training or role-specific learning journeys, if you like. So blended learning approach, which is always a good thing, not, let's say, embarking on a two-day training, that's it, check, but really a long learning journey with multiple steps, stepping stones along the way before people graduate. So it indicates five, six months on average. Another key principle that we did was managers first. So always training the managers first, onboarding the managers first in whatever we did, because in any change or transformation program, that's also one of the key fundamentals. You want to make sure that the leaders are dressed up, capable of, and so on, of driving the change. Another thing that we tested out in the pilot phase was the on-the-job practice. So for every single day we had, we had two days on-the-job practice where our C-agents would be trained in the morning up until after lunch and then head out to their workstations and do their normal job, basically. So picking up the phone, answering cases, emails, and so on, but obviously applying themselves, applying the tools, the methodologies, and so on that they were taught in the morning. And managers circling around to help them, to coach and guide and give feedback, and so on. So it was a bit of a learning experience for everyone, basically, involved. And last but not least, local reinforcement. I heard before that René was also talking about, you know, making or giving local management some skin in the game in terms of driving the change, being capable of giving feedback, coaching the teams, and so on, so that we make sure that the learning are sustained, making sure that people are slowly but surely getting into the habit of using these new tools, because we have seen over more and over again, more and over again, more and over again, more and over again, that it actually works. But again, be mindful of the fact that our starting point was, you know, not having standards at all. And that was really our point of departure. So not starting at a too advanced level, but getting the basics right is really what we were trying to do. If we look at some of the experiences that we have reaped from a global rollout that, as René also talked about, is actually still running as I stand right here. We have been doing this rollout, or we kicked off the rollout back in 14 months ago, 14, 15 months ago. And in terms of customer service numbers, we have probably trained what equals 2,600, 700 people by now. And so we are at the tail of a long and very comprehensive global rollout for sure. We also found ourselves in a situation where we basically had to train in no less than 12 different languages, simply because we wanted to make sure that the impact was of a certain significance. And if we had done everything in English, there are just certain areas where it would never have worked. Yes, we could have done it more as a one-way conversation, but we wanted to engage people. We want people to challenge each other to roleplay and really think about it. We want people to discuss these things. And that just meant that we had to cater for some very, very specific area needs, which effectively means that when we are done here with the last few areas, we end up having trained the organization in no less than 12 different languages. What we also saw was a very big variation in skill and maturity level across the areas and within areas also for that matter. And that also means that in very specific terms, absolute terms or numbers, we have newcomers who had their first day in the company in the first day of training. And we have had people in the training who had 40 years of being customer service agents in the company. And that just means that we also had to cater for that in terms of facilitation, in terms of making sure that we challenge people and the point of departure again, where they are. Are they again a newcomer in the company or have they been here for 30, 40 years or so? But the good thing is, what we have seen by now is that our tools are actually scalable in that sense and also applying an extra mile mindset. It doesn't talk about tenure or experience or anything. You can always look for those opportunities. CS managers, as mentioned before, are the key to success when we do this, the launches, the implementation, the whole thing. Again, managers having skin in the game, it just makes a tremendous difference that they are out there being trained, they can coach, they can give feedback and so on and keeping the vibe alive, keeping the the boss alive and so on out there in the areas and the countries. What we also saw from some of the experiences we have had here, given that the approach has been very, very hands-on, that just means that we have seen a lot of immediate responses from the customer. So customers actually coming back to us, thanking us or the individual customer service agent for giving them a better service. service that they expected or going the extra mile and so on. And I can tell you that when the individuals receive those emails from the customers thanking them for a good job, it's absolutely priceless to see their faces and certainly the smiles on their faces. Last but not least, which is a little bit of untapped territory for us, is the potential of implementing parts of or everything from our customers. service training into the customer service training into the rest of the organization. We do have some interest from other functions looking at parts of or the whole thing, but certainly also looking at digital touch points, whether being live agent chats or chatbots and so on. But again, it's so far for us a little bit of uncharted territory, but something that we are certainly discussing and we'll look into in the future. So all in all, for what we have done here, we are certainly on the right track as it says up here. We, with all our initiative that we launched, being digital solutions, digital products, operational commitments and so on and so forth, and certainly also the human factor being a big part of this, we are on the right track. Can we do better? Absolutely. We can always do better. But it seems that a lot of initiatives as a whole are doing what they are expected and supposed to do. So that has been really rewarding for us to see and certainly for our customers and their supply chains and their businesses and so on. So far, so good. It's now time for questions and I'll invite René here back on screen. Yes. Back on stage, so to speak. Thank you, Jesper. Thank you, Jesper. And thank you for a great presentation. And I think we have set aside 50 minutes and we have eight, nine minutes left here. So there are time for questions out there. And please let them come in the chat while we are here and then we will have a look on them. But meanwhile, while people might be chipping in with a question or two to you, Jesper, maybe I would like maybe to ask a little about the whole journey because it's a rather big role role out you have done here. And if you should kind of say one single element that have been or the most important factor in getting this done. What would that be? Yeah. Okay. So there is one thing that jumps to mind and that is getting the organization behind you. And no doubt it was not a challenge per se in the beginning because I know how the company operates, but it was quickly fairly clear to me how important it was and still is to rally the troops, get the organization behind us. And certainly in the matrix organization that we're working in here, there was a lot of stakeholders. They needed to be onboarded, understand what we're trying to achieve so they can also help drive the change. So that has been absolutely key for the success for the implementation and so on. Yeah. And there are some kudos to the great achievement from Thomas out there. So thank you for that. Could you give an example of this where, you know, the importance of this upper stakeholders, you know, pushing because obviously going global with 2,800 people, there are definitely differences in how much support you have. And what we have had in different areas. I know that. So maybe just an example of where it has been working and what what upper management have done here to. Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's it's it's it points back to what I said before about rallying the troops and certainly getting getting all layers ready to to drive the change where we see the most and biggest uptake and immediate impact and what have you is certainly where senior management speaks the language. If I may say so. So really attends the training, familiarize themselves with the tools, the concepts, maybe not on a specialist level because they don't use it every day, but still being able to speak the language. So to talk about tools and bring that up in team meetings or town halls or whatever, or even, you know, across customer service, if we have an area MD who walks over to a customer service agent and and and and talks about the tools or listens in. I mean, we have seen examples of both area MDs and certainly customer service directors who are shadowing the customer service people to both to learn, but also to to give feedback and and certainly help raise the capabilities in the organization. And we have actually a question here from Simone going in that direction here, whether whether you have an advice on how to get an internal stakeholder on board. Yeah, which is a very good question. That is actually a really, really good question. Yeah. And I wish I had the silver bullet here because no two organizations get all internal. So it's an even better question. Exactly. No, but no two organizations are obviously the same. And I can I can honestly say for from the company that I'm from, which is a northern German company. We are to to a large extent, they're very hierarchical. We are very and let's say we are a little bit of a big, let's say we are a big, let's say we are a big matrix as well. And that that was a tremendous challenge, not because it's difficult per se, but it requires a lot of time to onboard the stakeholders, a lot of meetings in parallel and keeping people, keeping people engaged in the in the process. There were certainly certain stakeholders at the at high level that we needed to bring into the design phase to help help shaping up and certainly have them at their perspectives on what is needed. So it has been a in that sense, a bit of a in my own, let's say biased view, a little bit of a success story because we managed to engage multi multiple levels, all levels actually in the in the shop from CEO down to again in the individual training sessions, somebody who had his or hers first or second day in the company. So unfortunately, Simone, I don't have the I don't have the silver bullet, but but no, but I think maybe if I can add, because I think one of the things just an example of of of what you did to rally the troops. I mean, before starting up the program, even though the program was kind of ready, you made actually invited a lot of the regional stakeholders and these two what we call the content go through workshop in Hamburg. So basically flying in people from all over the world to and instead of just starting up, then actually postponing like two months in order to have their fingerprint on a version that was almost ready at that time. Yes, absolutely. The sign off was important for us. Yeah. And in our case, we have six different regions and we wanted to make sure that the regions were buying into all the concepts and all the tools and everything and basically giving us six thumbs up, meaning okay, okay, now it's time to rock and roll for sure. So absolutely. So I think that's a good example of how to invest in in in in the stakeholder management. I think so very much involvement engagement of of the stakeholders that are needed to have on board, which in our case is quite a few. And and from I would say from an external point of view, it actually also just made the the things even better because obviously those days gave also input to the input to the tools and some some some some some some some some so in that way, the co-creation part became very lots of valuable input. Absolutely, absolutely, which was let's say part of the last bit of the design slash pilot phase. Yeah, yeah. So, yes, maybe just one comment here. And thanks for for the kudos here from from Thomas. Just just to mention that it was not only customer service who made this NPS swing from minus to to to open the two digit plus here, it was a multitude of of initiatives that we launched and certainly also some market conditions. But but we did we did the player role in the in the NPS. You are so humble. Yes, always. Yes. Thank you. And I think we have two, three minutes left before we should end the session. So I don't know whether we have more questions out there. Otherwise, otherwise we will not hold you back for now. So with that said, Jesper, a big thank you for sharing your case with us. Thank you. And then to all of you out there, thank you for joining and hope to see you again on another webinar here. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.