Welcome back on stage and thank you Stefan so much for joining. I'm really looking forward to this conversation now. And you introduced Brooke a little bit to us and you also shared some insights on what were the biggest challenge or what are the biggest challenge for Brooke at the moment. You called it this mammoth task. And you also shared the ambitions that Brooke has now in the next couple of years. And let's stay right into it. I'm super curious to hear a little bit more about this ambitious Brooke 2025 plan. I mean, it was such a courageous move, right, to sell off part of the essence of Brooke. Now I'm curious to understand, like, where did you find this courage to actually sell off part of the DNA? Well, it was a long term strategic move. And of course, we had several problems with the area that we sold. But this was also the birth of something new and the focus into the future. In the past, we were more figure oriented, past oriented. And now we have a very clear goal. Where is the mountain we want to climb on. And this mountain has also figures on the top. It's a growth of 45% in five years. And we want to do this in a profitable way. We want to reach at least 10% EBIT. Now, you told me, Stefan, that, of course, to reach that mountain, right, we could basically execute the plan five years, go there. But you told me previously that you have some sort of different philosophy on how to arrive at that mountain. So how does the way up there look like? How do you take that continuously? I think, first of all, it was important to have the ambitious, where do we want to go? So to put the pole on the top of the mountain. And to be honest, when I first told our people, hey, we want to grow almost 50% in five years. And we want more than double our EBIT. Then there were a lot of question marks. People were more past oriented, figure oriented. We had more than 100 KPIs. Now we have less than 10 KPIs. But now we focus into the future. And there is also a principle in our meetings, 80% future and maximum 20% talk about the past. And, of course, the way the path up this mountain, where we have a pole on top, the flag, we want to have 650 million turnover, starting from 450. That is a most very important milestone on the top of the mountain. But the path where we go, that's not always clear and was not always clear. We have to take the people and to push the people together to do it together. Wow, what an ambitious plan. I'm really impressed. And I can also understand that that's not like a very straightforward mission. Sometimes you go right and left, right? I mean, it's a very successful journey so far. And it obviously has a lot to do with taking the right decisions along the way. And that probably also changed a lot of your role as a leader and the way it is perceived. Can you share some insights on how it has changed for you, being a leader at Brook in this time? Yes, I believe in the beginning, as you said, it needed a lot of courage to plant this pole on the mountain. But very soon I was surprised when we started to create the ideas about innovation, about growth initiatives. And to me, it was a very big surprise that actually from more than 200 ideas, we had to select the 30, 40 initiatives that we want to focus on. And it was also nice to see how the people, our management teams and the employees that were involved in these growth initiatives, how they also grew together and started to be open minded. And I think there was also a lot about purpose. As I said in the introduction, the big problem of human mankind at the moment seems to be COVID. But actually it's not. The big problem is global warming. And really, we have to do something. Otherwise, it's going to cost us an enormous amount of money in the future. And we just leave it to the next generation, which is unfair. And this purpose starting with helping the energy transition, doing something for the sustainability and helping with safety and security solution for the public infrastructure. That was very, let's say, easy thing to motivate our people and also to do it in partnership together with clients and partners, because we are not alone in the public infrastructure. Yes. So maybe if we zoom in a little bit on management role and like your role as a leader, as you as you're discussing, I mean, essentially, I think as leaders, what we can do is just talk to people in our organization. So going being two or three years into that journey, did you notice how conversations have changed conversations you have with peers in the company? Did they somehow change over over that time? And how did they? Yes, of course, as I mentioned before, in the past, we were more past oriented. Sometimes I really felt like we are running on a highway, just watching the back mirror 140 km per hour on the highway, instead of watching the main screen and what's behind the next curve, because that's decisive. And today we have really this principle rule, maximum 20% past, maximum 20% talking about the past financial figures and 80% about the future, because that's where we can have an impact on the past. That's the past. And this took us a while really to change our mindset, even myself, I had to change. But I must say today, it's really a free spirit in the meetings. And I'm very happy when the people tell me, hey, Stefan, now you talk too much about this. We want to talk about this. We want to talk about the past. We want to talk about the future. And this is a mindset that is not just a bottom that you press. It's a process that the whole organization goes through. And that's also a little bit my job. When you talk about the future, you cannot take decisions on hard facts often. You have to coach, be together with your people. And I see myself not as a chief executive officer. I see myself as a chief enabling officer. helping making the surrounding conditions that our people can grow together with partners, together with our clients, because often we are in brownfield projects in infrastructure and we have to enrich this into a better future together with partners and clients. Well, what a great name, chief enabling officer. I really like that. What did that mean for you in day to day work? It can be stressful and sometimes I have also to watch not time wise to overload myself, but I like to be with the people. I don't have an office anymore. I have a small suitcase and I am with the people and where are the projects. How did you work with resistance? Maybe on that? Like, was there a lot and how did you work with it? Yeah, there was sometimes there were question marks. Hmm, the CEO again here. Yeah. Yeah. And tomorrow he wants to be again here. Is there something wrong with us? No, I want to be there to help. And often I see myself also as a learning part of the organization because a lot of things our our managers, our employees know much better than I. I might be a little bit the conductor or the coach on the sideline that can help give advice. Maybe you have a different flying heights where you don't see the details. But you have the better view on the long term vision and together as a team, you can then move ahead by profiting together. Yeah. Stefan, I have to ask you one question, maybe which you mentioned earlier about the project. So maybe going a little bit more into the content of the of the strategy. You said you selected more than 40 initiatives basically in running them as a portfolio. Where did you get the ideas? Where did you? Where did you? Where did you? Where did you? Where did you? Where did you? Where did you? Where did you? Where did you? Where did the ideas coming from for this business ideas? That was a difficult process really to coming from a past which was past oriented going into a future which is completely future oriented focusing on energy transition sustainability and safety security. We had to do several workshops just to lift and lift up our man mindset future oriented and also to create this ideas ideas. But of course we had some outside help from an interesting company you might know. No idea what you're talking about. Not to mention words. But it was also a lot of fun this journey. And it was not something that is happening on one day or one weekend or on two day workshop. It's something that was evolving in different steps. And when I say Brook 2025, it's not a big deal. It's not a five year program that starts at year number one and ends five years later. It's a journey. And even after one year we had to reload. We had to say Brook 2025 next generation. Because in the beginning we fully focused on the future on growth on innovation. But in the second and third step in the second and third year we had also additional initiatives that were focusing more focusing more on the core business on securing our USP's because that's the bread and butter which is also important. But it's very closely interconnected of course with the growth and innovation initiatives. But it's a program that works step by step. And to be honest, we had also one or two initiatives where we had to say sorry, it doesn't work. We had to exit. Maybe you want to buy a company but they don't work. They don't want to sell. So there is an end. Stop signal. And we also had COVID on the way. Just after our start, everything was completely different. But we said, no, 2025 is there. It's here to stay. It's the flag on the top of the hill. Maybe the path might be a little bit different. But that's what we stick to. Let's maybe use the last question to look a little bit into the future. Like what is the next big thing coming up for Brook? I believe we have started the last two or three years a lot of initiatives, a lot of programs. And besides only doing innovation, we also take our people along. We have educational programs. We take care about carbon footprint in our own organization in all three scopes. We take care about the client platform with design thinking initiatives, et cetera. And education and continuous education with LinkedIn learning, with Moodle and other tools is very important because we want to grow our employees, our organization, and even with our clients in a sustainable way. And being on top of the hill and being dead, that's not the goal. We want to be there, enjoy the view. Enjoy the party. And look at the next. Even further. Yes, even further. Maybe there might be a summit 2030, but that's not to be discussed at the moment. But we should not overload the organization. That's very important because you can also fall into the acceleration trap. So now we want to consolidate the next two, three years what we have started and really do the things right. We are doing the right things, but we have to continue now what we have started. And that's now our main focus. Although I must say, I almost weakly fall in this trap and people remind me, but Stefan, you told us no more group projects at the moment. All right. Thank you so much, Stefan, for being here and sharing your experience. It was really interesting for the two of us. And I'm sure it was also really inspiring for our audience. Thank you very much. Thank you. Nice being with you.