and the next day. Good morning and welcome to this event focusing on growing in challenging times. We've been looking very much forward. My name is Anders Rehfeldt. I'm a partner in our commercial growth practice and I will try to be your host for the next hour. The idea for this event is based on dialogues we have had with our customers, especially within the last six months. And one challenge that our customers continue to mention is the dilemma they have right now between on one side to grow the business, meeting the revenue targets they have, and on the other side to improve efficiency to meet the profitability targets they have. And we find this dilemma very interesting and we have designed this event around that dilemma. So what can you expect from today? Well, we at least will try to give our perspectives on the key trends and the dilemmas we see within the market. We will give our perspective on concrete steps you can take to build a more profitable and also customer-centric go-to-market model. And then what I will be looking very much forward to is we have our two cases from Harger Group and Stark who will share their perspective, their learnings from their different cases. And we will end up in a panel discussion with our two guests and a colleague and go more in details with their learnings. We would very much like to use the chat for asking questions during the event and also questions you have for the two cases, but also perspectives you have. And if we don't answer all the questions today, then we will promise you that we will capture all the questions and come back with at least our best answer to those. So while we start up here, maybe let's start to use the chat. So if I could ask all of you to just open the chat and just write your name, your company and your location, at least to get some kind of energy into the chat. While you do that, let's start slowly up. And I think to create a common foundation for our discussions today, I will start to share our perspectives on the key trends we see, especially within the building and construction industry. You will probably know most of the trends and you will probably also be affected by most of the trends. And we will go shortly through them and then we will deep dive into two of those. some of the trends we see are that, you know, what we call expanding ownership of the customer journey. We see companies across the value chain that either go upwards or downwards in the value chain to capture more value. We see customers engaging different challenges in new channels in what we call multi-channel growth due to changes in customer demands, but also driven and enabled by new technologies. We see what we call embracing customer centricity and digitalization, where digitalization is not only a matter of improving efficiency, but it's actually enabling across the customer journey to optimize each of the touch points and thereby both improve efficiency, but also to create a better customer experience. And then we more specifically see that the whole prefabrication and modularity becomes more important and increasing to capture value in the market. And then, of course, there's a trend around sustainability. Companies using sustainability as a differentiator in the market and to drive growth. And we call that commercializing sustainability. And then within sustainability, and especially with the building and construction industry, a lot of customers are talking about circularity and recycling as maybe not a differentiator, but at least as a qualifier. And then finally, I think we are all hit by different kinds of laws and regulations that affect our daily work. But we will deep dive into a few of these trends and we will actually deep dive into two trends that we think are very important. The first one is the multi-channel growth, where we see customers, as mentioned, are engaging in new channels, driven by a change in the customer demands, in the customer requirements, and often enabled by new technologies. And actually, I find interesting, a recent survey shows that 80% of buyers within the construction and building material industry see e-commerce as part of their future buying habit, which I think is a very high number and has been increasing over the last years. In terms of embracing customer centricity and digitalization, we see companies now use digitalization, not only as a tool to improve efficiency, but as mentioned, as a way to both increase efficiency and to improve the customer experience across the customer journey. The cases we will hear about later will also deep dive into these trends. So that will kind of be the focus for today. But before we deep dive into these trends, I would like to touch upon a few dilemmas, which arise, at least as we see it, when we work with these trends. And as mentioned in the beginning, we have been talking to our customers about what are their challenges, what are their dilemmas, at least from a commercial perspective, when they're working with these two trends. And we find these dilemmas very interesting and would like to invite you into dialogues around how to solve these, because that's not easy. So it's an invitation, again, to write your comments and your perspectives in the chat when I go through these dilemmas. But it's also an invitation after this event to write to us with your perspectives, your ideas, your learnings, and we will promise you to get back with our answer to your questions and your perspectives. So what are the dilemmas that we at least hear from our customers? Well, there's one dilemma, which is about, in general, how do we grow in new channels and reduce our commercial costs? Another dilemma, how do we engage more directly with our customers and strengthen our relations to our current partners and dealers? That's one of the dilemmas that Hargoku has been facing. And we will hear a little bit more about that later. A third dilemma that we are listening very much to is how do we meet the changing customer needs and maintain focus on our core business? It's very easy to divert into all kinds of different directions. So how do we meet these new customer demands but still keep focus? The fourth dilemma that we have been listening to is how do we introduce digital solutions, which both create a better customer experience and improve operation efficiency? I know that our guest from Starglass will have some perspectives on that dilemma. And then maybe a more broader dilemma, which is how do we actually disrupt the industry and still grow revenue from our core business? Personally, I think these five dilemma are super interesting. I'm not sure that we can solve all of them today, but at least we can touch upon some of the elements within each of these dilemmas. So again, if you have any perspectives, just please write your comments in the chat and we will come back to that. But before we continue, we would like to give our perspective at least on how can you work with these trends and these dilemmas. And I have Matthias, a good colleague, who at least will give his perspective on what are the key steps in handling that. Thank you, Anders. And good morning, everyone. And thank you for joining in. My name is Matthias, as Anders mentioned, and I'm also part of the commercial growth department here in Implement, working with growth and a lot with channel strategy. And what I will take you through today is what we call the main handles that we see are used by some of the high-performing companies we work together with. Hopefully, some of them will support you on your journey in your companies. And also, they tap into the trends and dilemmas that Anders talked about. So let's dive into it and let's look at the handles here. We're going to go through five key steps that we believe can accelerate your channel and customer engagement strategy. And the five steps we will go through is mapping the channels, understanding the customers, identifying the potential, decide on the right setup, and then lastly, integrate it into your operating model. And these dilemmas or these steps, they talk into some of the dilemmas that Anders mentioned. And hopefully, we will support you on your journey out there in your companies. So if we start by the first one, which is all about mapping your channels. What you, as a company, need to ask yourself is how might we assess our current effect and challenges within and across channels. So it's all about looking at the landscape in your market, in your industry, and identifying what is the channel landscape and what does it look like and where are we, as a company, positioned. So the first step you need to go through is taking the outside in perspective. So for once, forget about your company and look at the market as a whole. And try to look across the industry from the outside and see what are the channel landscape, what are the channels present in the market. That's kind of the first step. The second step is to take on the lens of your company. So the inside out perspective and looking across this full channel landscape you just created. Where are you as a company present and where are you not present? I don't say you have to be present in all the channels, but at least you need to be aware of where you present and where you're not present. What we see is the winning companies are the ones who remain agile and kind of reconfigure their channel strategy approach based on changing industry dynamics. What we see is the ones that changed based on customer needs and customer wants. So that's kind of the first step you need to do in order to grow your and accelerate your channel and customer engagement strategy. The second step is all about understanding your customers. So looking across the audience and identifying who is your target customers. And here the key question you need to ask yourself is how might we design the optimal buying journey from the customer's perspective. So taking on the perspective of the customer and identifying what do they want, what do they need. And here the first step is like trying to map the customer journey. So putting on the lens of the customer and trying to through the channel landscape that you just mapped out. What is the journey that the customer is on and where does the customer kind of engage with the companies. And talking about engagement, that's exactly the step, the second step. Across this customer journey, you need to identify the key customer touch points. Where are the opportunities where you as a company has a possibility of really engaging with the customers. Where does the customer have a touch point with you as a company. Here we see the winning companies are the ones who are really good at identifying the gaps of the customer pathway in order to drive growth. Because you as a company will be present at some of the customer touch point, but there will also be customer touch points where you're not present today. And that leads exactly into the third step of this accelerating your channel and engagement strategy, which is all about identifying the potential. So looking across the channel landscape, the customer journey, you need to identify where you as a company really have an opportunity to grow. And here, the key question you need to ask yourself is all about like how might we redesign the path to purchase to close potential channel gaps and also reprioritize focus to maximize our investment. So it's really about identifying those areas where you as a company have an opportunity to do even more or to do better. So the first step here is all about identifying the gaps. What I just said before in the understanding of the customers, the winning companies are the ones who actually are able to identify where do we have gaps. So utilizing your channel overview, your customer journey and the touch point, you need to identify where do you see a gap between what the customers want and where you are as a company. Because oftentimes we see that companies only focus on where they are themselves, but not really taking on the customer perspective. And that's really critical here to take their view into perspective. The second step you need to focus on is to create the optimal channel mix. So now you have mapped the channels, you have understand your customers, you identified where is the potential. Now you need to make the optimal mix for your company. So really thinking about where are we good, where do we have capabilities, hence what are the customer touch points we focus on. Because you can probably not manage to focus on all the customer touch points, hence you need to prioritize. And what we oftentimes see is that companies kind of only focus on the customer benefits, which of course are important. But we also need to remember our costs in this. So back to one of the dilemmas Anas mentioned about like how can we kind of strengthen our customer engagement while also maintaining our cost level. And that's also back into you need to prioritize, you need to focus on where can you actually do something where you maybe both improve the customer benefits and increase your efficiency to maintain or reduce your cost level. And what we experience is that winners are the ones who kind of design an optimal channel mix that maximizes return delivering on the desired customer experience while also maintaining a stable or great cost level in the company. So that was the first step about identifying potential. The fourth step we dive into is deciding on the right setup. So how do you go about it? How do you actually design for this if you want to succeed? So here the question you need to ask yourself is all about how might we design a trend channel strategy that can reduce costs while also unlocking new avenues of growth and profitability. So back to the combination or the dilemma of growing while also reducing costs. And what we see here is like the first step you need to decide on or define in your company is designing your new channel strategy. So now you map your channels, you understood your customers, you identified where is the potential. So now it's all about, okay, where do we make a choice of this is the way we go, but also where do you make a choice of this is not where we go. So kind of also deselecting. That's also a key element here. And then when you have designed that kind of channel strategy from inside out in your company, you need to think of three key elements here. And the key elements is desirability, feasibility and viability. And what do I mean by that? Desirability is all about is there a desire in the market? Does our customers actually want this? Is there a need from our customers? And do they ask for this? So do we have a desire in the market? The second step, the feasibility. Are we actually able to carry it out? Are we as a company equipped to actually carry out this new strategy? Do we have the capabilities, the processes, the knowledge, the systems to actually deliver on this? And then the third viability, can we make it into a viable business? Can we make money on this? So the viability is all about is this actually some element where we also see a good business going in this direction? And here, what we see is that the winners are the ones that kind of balance the desirability, feasibility, viability. So they make sure that before we launch it, we actually have kind of thought about whether this is possible and if there is a need. And then also kind of quickly identify the capabilities that they need to possess internally versus what they can outsource or get out in the market. Because there are some elements where you as a company need to focus and become really good. And then there are elements where you say, OK, this is not our key competences. That's something we buy from some of the experts out in the market. So that's the fourth step deciding on the right setup. And now we're moving into the fifth step, which is all about integrating into your operating model. So here, you as a company need to ask yourself the question, how might we structure the governance, the incentives, the processes in order to deliver on the channel strategy as intended and also upscale our employees? Because oftentimes we see that new channel strategies also require new ways of working. And Anas also mentioned the digitalization. Hence, new capabilities are needed from what we used to do to what we need to do from tomorrow. And here, the first step is to identify how to make it work. And that sounds easy, but it's all about taking that channel strategy and think about, OK, but how do we go about it? How do we actually make sure that we design an organization that is set up for success? So that's the first step. And what we oftentimes see here is that companies go through all these steps and find a great solution, a great challenge strategy, but also they identify that that solution and promise to customer is going to be really expensive. Hence, it's not a viable business. And that talks into the last step of today, which is all about testing this setup before the full rollout. So think about how might we be able to test this with customers, with partners or with in the market in order to identify this. So these are the five steps you need to think about as a company in order to accelerate your channel strategy and customer engagement strategy. And hopefully that will support you on your journey out there in the market. And then the last mention, because I mentioned test about integrating into your operating model. But I really think test is super important and I believe you can test throughout all five steps. So when you have mapped your channels, try to test it with experts in the industry, with stakeholders, with customers, with partners to see, do they see the market the same way? The same when you have understood your customers, go interview them, go ask them and figure out, do they believe or see the market the same way? And is this really their needs? When you have identified the potential, again, go test it. And then when you have decided on the right setup, try to focus on a single market, a single area, a single product group and see if it's possible to test this before you roll out in full scale in your organization. These were the five steps that we see and we believe will support you on accelerating your channel and customer engagement strategy. But now I think it's time to dive into some of the cool cases we have brought with you today who are here to share a few insights. So I will invite Anders back to the stage to give a short introduction to our two cases. Thank you, Matthias. And thank you for coming by and sharing your perspectives. That was great to hear. So now we're coming to a point that I've been looking very much forward to because we have our two guest speakers and I'm sure they will present them self. But we have Roger from Hager Group, which is a global manufacturer of electrical equipment. And Roger will elaborate on the dilemma we mentioned in the beginning about how to engage in new channels and strengthen the relation to existing dealers and partners. And later we have Lars from Star Group, which is a global wholesale company. And Lars will elaborate more on the dilemma around how to introduce the digital solutions and thereby both improve efficiency and improve the customer experience. So stay tuned. I've been looking very much forward to these two cases. And the first case we have is Roger from Star. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Anders. And thank you, ICG, for us inviting here and to have this exciting exchange with all of you. I first like to introduce myself a little bit more. I'm for 30 years in the electrical technical industry. I started actually as a wholesaler. And since over 20 years now, I'm with Hager in several management positions. About Hager, we are an electrical technical manufacturer. And we are taking care about your safety in your building, in your houses, in commercial buildings. Mostly on electrical distribution, but also on wiring accessory trunking, energy management, and nowadays also on services. It's a family company. It's a family company. It's founded in 1955. And it's still in family hands. And we are with about 13,000 employees and with a, we say, mid-size company in 3 billion turnover. When we started this topic with ICG is because we see a big change happening in our industry. Our industry is really conservative, traditional, and we have a three delivery steps model from us to a wholesaler, wholesaler to an electrician. And it was quite obvious how we could do our business. Nowadays, due to digitalization, we see a big challenge in the channels who are shifting. There is a leakage at our wholesalers where the electricians are buying their goods. There are new channels coming up due to e-commerce. Partly those e-commerce are still buying at the wholesalers. Partly they are buying directly. And to be honest, we don't have a clue actually how it goes. So for us, it was first very important to have a better outside-in view on the buyer behavior, the searching behavior of our electricians. And of course, how our wholesalers are dealing with this as well towards the electrician. So for us, it's very important to understand those steps. So for us, actually the key learnings in the last year, what we did, is mapping our channels. Better to have an understanding what kind of channels are there. Are there new coming? To understand much better on the outside-in view of our installers, how they are looking for products, how they are buying their products, how they make their decisions. And then of course, if you notice, what is then the different potential? Because it might be that not all the channels are that even important. And we have to make choices. You cannot deal suddenly in all the channels. So we have to make choices. Where do we want to work? Or where can we say we accept it and we don't work on that? And to do this, to have a better view, we started some pilots. We call it speed boats in just a few countries because we are global wide and what's happening in Germany can be completely different as in Spain. But at least to have a better understanding of a new channel, how are they working before you directly coming into a channel conflict. And I think this is for us the step we are now, by all those learnings, building a real strategy in it. Thank you. My name is Lars Strier and I am the Product Director for the Start Group Digitalization Program. Overall, let me see here. I have been working with the investment, sorry, the program for the past three years. I am delighted to share the case with you today. But firstly, let me introduce a few keynotes about Start Group. We are a more than 120 years old company. Today we have grown to become the largest builders merchant in Northern Europe. We have 1150 branches in combination with a lot of DCs around our Nordic market, our German market and our UK market. We have 20,000 employees serving half a million tradesmen out there. We are owned by CVC, our equity partner since 2021. And we have a turnover around 50 billion DKK. Let me introduce and outline the digitalization transformation case with you. First of all, our project objective. We will always strive for delivering consistent customer experience. And to do so, we will create a platform that enables innovation, agility and digital entrepreneurship. But our starting point and situation was a bit challenged. We had local fragmented leadership teams with outdated ERP systems. We had no unified digitalization strategy. And there was a lack of belief in terms of a common direction. We could also see that our competitors were advancing in the digitalization. And digitalization is the license to win. So we needed to kick off a unified digitalization program to remain competitive. To do so, and one of the levers in the digitalization program, which actually consists of not only the supply chain, but also sales, finance, master data and pricing. We needed a lever. And what we did, we teamed up with implement and we make a full pre-analysis of our digitalization across our supply chain. Based on business requirements, taking the customer perspective in and creating mutual processes and perspectives, we were able to go out and cherry pick the best of breed solutions, which is matching our industry and possibilities in the market. And we started out small, implementing in one country, creating the best cases, the improvements, and thereby acknowledging local autonomy. But by the same time, striving for a mutual strategy, moving to the next country. And now we have four solutions actually transforming the full supply chain. This was also the key point and learnings and the key enablements that we showcased, which actually united the full group. And thereby we had the foundation for creating an investment and energization program. Today we are running across all our BUs with this mutual perspective. Thanks and looking forward to the dialogue with you. So welcome to this panel discussion and thank you very much for the two inspiring cases. Just one comment has been a question in the chat whether we share the presentation afterwards. And of course we do that also the recording. So that should be all good. I'm sure that a lot of the participants are curious about how do we actually implement all these changes. The changes that both Matthias has been mentioning, but also all the good changes that our cases have been mentioning. So before we deep dive into these two cases, I think it could be interesting to just at least hear some perspectives on how do we actually drive implementation of strategic initiatives. And for that I've invited Rolf, who is partner and part of our commercial excellence practice. And I know you have been part of a lot of projects where we have redesigned the go to market approach. And we also know that for some of these projects implementation has been very successful and for some of the projects it's been a little bit more difficult. So maybe you could just shortly as a kind of introduction to this theme, maybe elaborate a little bit about what characterised the projects that are very successful in implementation and what characterised the projects where it seems a little bit more difficult. Absolutely, Anders, and thanks for having me. Nice to meet you all out there. So what we see when we look across the many different projects that companies are implementing over the years, only one third of them actually deliver the benefits and the impact that they were set out to achieve. So we believe that calls for a different approach to how we go about implementation and change. So when we zoom in on the successful implementations, what we typically see is that the wider organisation is involved much earlier in the projects. So typically strategic projects are born in the boardroom or in the executive team, defined by a project team and later on rolled out to the rest of the organisation. But the problem or the challenge in that approach is that you don't create the necessary commitment and ownership and engagement around the different solutions that you develop. So and hence you don't get the impact that you would like to get. So what we recommend is that you invite both leaders and employees into the project much earlier to help co-create the solutions. Also think about how we implement this in the best possible way. And in that way, create that that more engagement, ownership and commitment to what you do. So when we think about implementation this way, I think we can I think we can achieve more as a company. And I think both the speedboats that Rocher mentioned and also the pilot implementations are good examples of how you can think of implementations more as a roll up exercise than a roll out exercise. There are, of course, other other handles in the in the toolbox as well. But but I think these are two good examples of what you can do. Cool. Thank you. Great to start here. And maybe I forgot to say out there, but if you have any questions in the chat, then please just write them and we will try to answer most of the questions as we we can also to the case. But let's dive into the two cases. And I think they were super interesting. And I think at least when I listen to the cases, I think there's two things that goes across the cases. It's one thing is about, you know, really understanding the customer needs before you move forward. And then there's the test and learn or the piloting. So how do you actually do make sure that you test before you scale coming back to your point also about the implementation part. And I think it would be interesting to maybe try to deep dive into these two topics. And if we start with the part about understanding the customer needs and maybe I will start with you, Lars, because I think it's it's super interesting. You know, how did you actually got this understanding of the real customer needs? And what I mean is that sometimes there is a tendency to to introduce new tools or concepts that might be really nice for the customers, but that really not create any customer value or maybe not really differentiate you from competition, to be honest. So maybe, you know, it could be super interesting to you. How did you actually understand the real customer needs? I think we are spread across different markets. Some markets are more advanced than others. Right. Before the Danish markets were number one. We experienced that, you know, doing a digitalization pre analysis that the suites were actually much better. And, you know, we are about marketeers being close to the customers. So we kind of unified the knowledge we have, but we also had the outside in perspective. So we had you coming on board since you have been working with us for several years in several markets. So you had some understanding, but you also have the outside in perspective to challenge ourselves. But it's actually to take the best from the different markets with a third perspective coming in and then then challenge yourself. What is kind of the basics you need, what is next level and what is blue sky? And instead of having several systems, one per country, then it's actually unify your needs and then kind of the maturation journey. Right. So it is bring the marketeers in and make that maturation ladder. And then they acknowledge the local autonomy, but go with the pull forward approach. So we start up in one, we select mutually and we direct a product roadmap who will be first, second, etc. And then we test it out in a smaller scale. And it's about a system adaptation, not an implementation. So when the business is actually right there from the beginning, you also get the business owners, the business process owners and the SMEs engaged. And you can actually kind of structure that community while you go. And then you have the business with you and the market perspective. And then you test it out and bring the learnings, right? And when you test it out, I mean, were there any surprises in terms of what actually created value for the customers? Because I think that's sometimes the point that you have an idea about what's creating value for the customer, but that might not be the real case. So, you know, I think in some areas we are not digitalized at all. You know, we went from papers to be paperless, no papers at all. You know, so when shift were turning, you know, putting products on stock, you know, we just, you can go and pick it right away. So, so we have it and we do not, we have the stock systems, right? Back in time, we went out, are there actually two? Now we know how many there are and they are actually there, right? Because the discipline in the way of working and the streamlining to be more coherent there is actually there and happening. And, and we do not see that many errors. And our customers acknowledge that in our NPSs, et cetera, when they, they put in the comments. Fantastic. So that's a clear customer value. Yeah. Maybe it's back to your share, you know, I know that a lot of things are happening in your industry as well. So, so any perspectives on the, on your understanding, the customers and the installers and what is changing there? Yeah. Yeah. Let, let's go a little bit back in the, in, in the past, how we found it. We, we were really focusing on the residential industry. So our core products was really for mostly the residential small commercial. And we rely there a lot on regulations. We were very good in, um, on time coming with the new regulation products. And that makes us market leader in the core markets in Europe. And there together with the wholesaler, we were really close with them as a family company. Most of the wholesalers are family company. So you, uh, spoke each other's language. And the same was of course with the smaller installers in that industry. Um, then two things happened. If you want to enlarge your, uh, business, we wanted also to go more in what we called high current. So in bigger, uh, buildings. So that's a new product portfolio, which is not new for the industry, but it was new for us. And there you already have other channels and, uh, other ways how you work with electricians. And on the other hand, you saw, especially the last 10 years that logistic and, uh, digitalization moved very quickly in our industry. So that meant that without that, you really took maybe enough care of it that your electricians were having other habits. And also the wholesalers, I think they underestimate a little bit the speed, how it went. So for us, it was a wake up call. Uh, first of all, that you came into another area. So that was already helping that you saw there are other habits and to protect your core business. You also needed to understand how can you do your business more efficiently with the same sales force and still winning market share. Fantastic. So, so if I understand you're right, this is what's question about also both protecting the, the core business, but also understanding that, uh, that there was a, the gain in terms of efficiency and, and, you know, the customer experience by engaging in, in new, uh, channels. Um, but, but, but one thing that I noticed that you talked a lot about, which I know it's very close to your heart is about the test and learn. So when you, when you have a map, the customer needs, and also that Matthias was talking about, you know, finding out the new potential, uh, channels. I know you've done a lot, uh, within the test and learn, and you also talked about the, the speedboat, uh, thing. But could you allow a little bit about what is your perspective on this test and learn? What has been the value of doing that? Uh, so, so, so I'm, I'm responsible for our core business, uh, in, in our company, which goes via the wholesaler. And there we saw this leakage and, and, and, and creating new channels. And to be honest, we, we, we're, we're not so very knowledge about the new channels. It was also a little bit hide it by the wholesalers, what we always called our partners, where a wholesaler is also your customer. Mm-hmm. Because you're also selling to a wholesaler and he is selling in a diffuse, uh, area. So for us, it was more important to understand from an outside in perspective, listening more to the installers, where are they looking for, for products, information? Where do they want to buy? How do they want to buy? And then to see, okay, how can you match this with our logistic way of working? We are very, uh, uh, faithful to our, uh, wholesalers. Uh, 90% of our business goes over them and work then together with them. As we are a global company now, you cannot change by doing one study your whole strategy. So what we thought is, is really, um, what you were saying, it starts in the boardroom and, and, and then you start with top management. You're going to map it. Uh, and then you have an idea how the new channels could look like and how they could work. But before we want to roll it out, we said, let's do just in some specific markets on only some specific channels to understand and better how is this channel working. And I think thanks to this speed boat and why is speed boat, you don't want to take this three, four years time. So you need to accelerate a little bit if you want to survive in a market and to grow faster than your competitors. Uh, that thanks to those speed boats, you have an idea how a channel is working, but then you find some nuances and you also find some ways how can they work even together with your present channel together. So that still the logistic part goes over your traditional channel, but that your marketing, uh, and, and your sales approach, your digital sales approach going more via a new channel. We have a question from the audience, uh, if you could give an example of, uh, a speed boat. So what is it actually? Yeah. So a speed boat is that we said, uh, let, let's say the e channel, uh, it's, it's, it's an, uh, a web shop channel can be created by, uh, a big installers son on, on, on, on his top floor. Uh, and, um, and, and, and, and growing out to, uh, a new platform where a lot of installers can find it, uh, digital. So when we said a speed boat, uh, we did this in one of the countries that we say, go and investigate. How is this web shop e sellers working? So get in contact with them, try to map them. How big are they? And then, then you can be super surprised that we find one was doing over 100 million, uh, euros and, uh, in a specific product portfolio area where we almost did nothing. And then in the speed boat that we, we, we made a playbook really very structured that we understand who is the channel, how are they working? What kinds of tools are they using? How do they get in contact with the installers? How do they buy their goods? Uh, how, how do they sell the goods? And so the whole supply chain, uh, part as well, and then, uh, making some KPIs. Which is very important that you measure why are they successful and how can this successful helping us? So this is what we call the speed boat to do it in say six months, nine months time. Great. Thank you. Super. And last any perspectives, because I know you also did the piloting. I'm sure it not just rolled it out. So any, any additional perspectives on the, on the piloting or. Yeah. I think we use it to a large extent, whether it's a new sales application, you know, just do the post solution, get it out there. Have the, the price guidance, uh, being available, having the fewer extra features being, being added, which actually, uh, provides value. Uh, you know, now we have, uh, the CO2 figures, uh, on the side, you know, they can actually be, uh, directed and integrated directly into the, to the, to the front end tool, uh, for the, for the cashiers. Right. Seeing those and testing it out. But also we do slice, uh, new areas, uh, what we call new capabilities. Like we have the disease, we have warehouse system selected, uh, common system across, but for the branches, we do not have any, uh, warehouse management system. So, so here we are testing out a small branch, a medium branch and a large branch on behalf of the group, uh, bringing the learning, conceptualizing that. But then we also, um, um, uh, take out, uh, the, the, the processes around, because one thing in logistics, we are sales driven business. So what are kind of the interfaces? How do you harmonize the, the processes here? So sometimes, you know, you also learn, okay, you do something in logistics. Okay. Is that the right setup, you know, to be, uh, doing the right things and the right processes and, and customer experience, uh, in the sales guys. And then we have an experience that, okay, it needs to be a full team actually being on board. And then we, then we, uh, build it into the concept, right? Um, and then we can, we can, we can scale it, right? So I think listening to you, I think there's an element of, you know, talking about the boardroom that you, you also caught the elephant. Not, it's not about making the big decision in the beginning, but, but, but try to test it. But I'm also listening to that the test needs to be very thorough. You need to be well-prepared. There needs to be a playbook. You need to have the KPIs in place. So you really get some fact based learnings out of that, uh, out of these, uh, tests. Yeah. And maybe if I may coming back to you that the biggest learning, what we also did is when in the boardroom or when in the boardroom, or with the top management, you create something, we learn now to involve even quicker the people who are supposed to work in this speedboat. Because now you just drop them a concept. Instead, they were part of making that concept and having their awareness and desire even more. Mm-hmm. So that's what we're doing now with new, uh, pilots that we, from really the beginning, having an ambassador involved in every project what we are doing. Makes sense. And, uh, speaking of that, uh, there's a question from the audience, uh, regarding how, how do you then, uh, and I think it's actually for all of us, but maybe you can start, Rocher. So how do you handle the dilemma that the people you would like to involve actually have daily tasks that they need to complete and so on? So how, how do we ensure that, that they actually have the necessary time to participate in, in the work? Well, the interesting part is, and that, that's what I try to say in the learning, when you just drop them a concept, then everyone feels it's on top of what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. When you involve them in the beginning, they are already excited that they may talk with the top management and more involved in strategic ways. Mm-hmm. So they, they, they find automatic ways to, to fill it in, in their daily jobs. And then they are so desired to work on that because they feel they are, they feel a responsibility to let it happen. And they're also learning us what kind of support we need to give them externally or internally in trainings and, and really make it happen for them that, that they understand these new technologies. Mm-hmm. So the acceptance, uh, of them in their normal job will be easier if you have them on board earlier. I agree. Oh, one, one, one quick, uh, elaboration on, on that as well, because, uh, yeah, the business is ready, uh, and they're doing a hard work every day. And, and sometimes when you need to kick off, you just need to bring out some, some external competencies in, you know, to support that. Uh, but, but, uh, as part of the digitalization program here, uh, the core part is, is funded, uh, you know, by group. But the new capability part, you know, we have streamlined all the local IT budgets towards, uh, the, the same product roadmap. So there you have the engagement and they have made the, the selections. They have been part of the process. They are committed. And, and, you know, now we have, uh, uh, a lean way forward where we invest in the, in the, in the same direction. Um, but sometimes, you know, you are engaged, um, but then you need the, the resources and prioritization. But, but by committing, uh, local investment budgets as well into a common journey, then you're already part of the strategy. So it's not only the group strategy, then it's also the, the local market strategy. Uh, and then it, it, it becomes part of the prioritization automatically, right? Uh, but sometimes you need to learn new things and it, it demands new capabilities. So there is also, um, uh, a change in an organization to bring those companies in. And on a short term basis while mobilizing, you know, you can, you can bridge the gap with, with having, uh, implement coming in, for instance, uh, helping out with, with that. And then hand over to the business, uh, uh, yeah. I think it's a super good point also that the local teams feel that they're part of a bigger journey, uh, when doing the test and learn. Yeah. Thank you so much. Uh, time is going really fast, especially when you're a good company. Uh, and I, I think we, uh, we are, we are about to, uh, round up here. But, but I think when listening to these, uh, two, uh, cases, it all sounds so great and fantastic, which is fine. But if you should do 20 seconds each, is there anything you would do totally different if you should start up again? Uh, this, uh, case, are there anything you would do very differently if you should start the project again? I think even more the, the, the vision, right? Uh, we started out, of course, we have a vision, uh, mission, et cetera. Uh, it started out, uh, in, in a group level. Uh, but you need the business owners to make the storyline in their own language to their own, uh, organizations. Right? So, so, uh, sometimes it starts up, but if you can get the business owners, uh, part of actually, uh, doing the vision. Of course on a group level, but, but also on a, on a local level right from the beginning. I think that's, uh, that's a good point. Yeah. It's a good advice. Yeah. I would say, uh, what we are talking about is always about transformation. Mm. That's something new. And by transformation, uh, it's, it's, it's, it, they need scare, care about the people. But care and scared is very close to each other. So people are scared to transform. Mm. So the earlier you involve teams really on the working floor, uh, let them think with it. I think we both share this, uh, would help a lot. And this is a key learning point for us. Thank you so much. I think we are coming to, uh, an end, uh, for, for this, uh, session. Thank you very much for, for joining. And once again, we invite you very much both to ask any kind of questions that you will have to, uh, to the two, uh, uh, cases or to materials. And we will do our best to answer, but also an invitation to share your perspectives, your ideas, your experiences with doing testing. And we will try to collect all these good ideas and experiences, uh, and, and share that again. And of course we will share, uh, the presentation. So thank you, Marion, for joining. Have a fantastic, uh, day.