Glossary, Dere, Stenberg, Stenberg, China, Raleigh, M.D.: Good morning and welcome to this morning event, where we will discuss how to use behavioral design to realize a much bigger potential of our benefits in our projects. Before we dive into the specificities of this method, I just want to give you a brief background on the method. Many of us have been schooled in the classic project triangle with time, scope, and budget. And that concept is in itself a very good and valid concept still, but it has created a very strong tendency for us to focus on the deliverables of the project. So we look at the IT systems that we are creating or the processes that we're developing, and sometimes that makes us lose focus on the impact that we want to create in the organization, the benefits we want to realize, and the change we want to create with the way we work. It's not that, or at least I think that many of you would agree that we can develop the most well-functioning gold-plated IT system, but if our colleagues or we aren't using it, it probably isn't creating that much value. So why is it that we so far haven't really had the focus on helping our colleagues change the behavior and the way of working to realize a bigger part of the benefit potential of the projects? We believe that it's probably because we believe that it's hard. It's super intangible and abstract to work with the change. So the whole idea behind what we're going to talk about today is to make it easy, to make it practical, to make it applicable in projects, to work with the change and with behavioral change in order to realize a bigger part of the benefit potential. So the agenda for today is a little bit of the projects. So the agenda for today is first a little bit practicalities, which we're already into, and then Asmus will talk about benefit realization, the method that we use to sort of create the framework for the projects. Then after a short break, MESS will come in and tell us a lot about behavioral design. Then there will be time for questions in the end, but if you have any, just write them in the chat along the way. And who are we today? We have Rasmus. Yes, my name is Rasmus. And as Alena said, I will be talking to you about designing the project right, designing the projects in order to create as many benefits as possible. So, but more of that to come in a short while. Then we also have MESS. Good morning, everybody. So like Alena said, I'll be talking about the behavioral part of this and how we can get that into the projects that we're working with. They'll be after the break. So that's a teaser for you to stay tuned. But apart from that, I'm just, I'm really glad to see that so many of you decided to join us today for this, our first event in English on benefit driven behavioral. So, yeah, I guess that's it, right? So it's you again. Yeah, it's me again. Because my name is Helena and together with MESS and Rasmus, I've been working for the past three years. I think it is now on combining these two methods. taking on experience based programs and if we know you've got many others in this period. So to start better ol right again, please. and a few practicalities before we get cracking. As I said, we would like to hear from you. We're currently not that many people, so just write in the chat, then we might ask you to elaborate a little bit along the way. Please be here on time, even when we have a break, we try to make this as engaging as possible with not too much silence. And then, of course, mute when you're in the plenary session and not saying anything. But I guess you all know this by now, we've been in the virtual realm for more than a year. So that is just some ground rules. And then a little commercial, because we have, of course, been working with this, with clients and creating impact in companies and organizations. And then I primarily so far. But we have also given these kinds of events for the last year and a half. And Rasmus has even written a book about the concept. It's in Danish right now, but hopefully it will be in English soon, where he tried to collate all the good learnings that we have made for the last year and a half that we have worked with this. And then we also have more events coming up. We have one planned for May 12th. And there will be more during the summer and the fall this year as well. So with that little commercial or teaser, I will hand it over to you, Rasmus. Thanks a lot, Alina. And thanks for stopping by. As I said, my name is Rasmus, and I'm a benefit realization geek, you might say. And that is why I'm going to be your guide for the next 40 or so minutes. We've done a lot of these events. Actually, and I've been speaking about this topic for many years now. And what we usually do to kick off these events is to sort of get a common understanding of, you know, how big is the problem really. And so in a few minutes, we'll actually like you to chip in to make a little contribution or you make your contribution to that conversation. But until then, we want to share some data with you. And I must say, you know, I've been working with Benefit Realization by itself and together with Mass's behavioral design concept for many years now. And I've been looking for, you know, the good data points that will give us a good impression of where we are. And I haven't really found what I was looking for until September last year. Because then the Danish state accountants or Riesrevisionen, as they're called in Danish, they published a fantastic report about benefit realization in the public sector. And, you know, for my purpose, it's fantastic. But for, you know, for other perspectives, it's maybe less so. But what they did was that they investigated 44 large public projects to find out, you know, how good were they at benefit realization. And this was projects from all over the public sector. And what they found out was that actually, when they asked the project owners, they said that they actually realized less than half, less than half, less than half of the benefits that they set out to realize. And, you know, you need to bear in mind that they could actually, they could actually change their benefit estimates, right up until the moment where the system or whatever thingy was put into use. But still, they, when they needed to sort of report on benefit realization, they reported that less than half was realized. And if that wasn't bad enough, you just need to take a look to the right. Because when the state auditors dug down into this to figure out, okay, you know, how much can we, you know, how much documentation can we actually find, they could only find that 18% of the benefit had sufficient documentation, a measly 18%. And so that's kind of bad. And so the million dollar question is, of course, why? Why is it that we are in a situation like this? And, you know, if we should start by asking the state auditors, they would say, okay, they could find two reasons. And one was that maybe they probably didn't do their analysis or estimation well enough. So there wasn't actually a reason to believe that they could realize that many benefits. That was one. And the second was that they didn't do enough follow up on the benefits. And I guess that probably is part of the vision, but we believe that there's actually a more fundamental reason, a reason behind that for realizing so few benefits. And it has to do with what Helena talked about a few minutes ago. And that is, they named these projects, IT projects, they were IT projects. And that meant that they had a large focus on, well, obviously, the IT part. And, and if you, if you are naming your project and IT project, then you are missing out on a lot. Because these projects were, were more than, you know, larger than, you know, larger than, you know, larger than at least 10 million kroner in expenses. So if you're spending that much money on IT, then that project has stopped being an IT project a long time ago, and started being a change project. And so, so you need to take a step back and look at the whole project, if you want to actually realize the full benefit potential. Because if you only, as Helena said in the beginning, focus on the deliverables, then you will miss out. In a little while, I'll ask you how you are doing in your organizations, when it comes to benefits realization. But before I do that, I just want to share a little personal story with you. Because I've been a benefit realization geek for eight years now, for the duration of the time I've been working with implement. But before that, I had, you know, real jobs, like probably most of you have up there, like I was a project manager or program manager in both the private and public sector. And in those 10 years, I was a cornerstone in that horrible statistic that you saw before. Because I made a lot of IT systems that were never used. I made processes that were not used, at least not the way we intended. And I built projects that were never sold. And nevertheless, I was taken into an office and patted by the back on the back and said, well done, Rasmus, because I did what Helena said in the beginning, I delivered on the project triangle. So I did the system on time, on budget and on the agreed quality. But clearly, clearly, that was not enough to realize the benefits. So with that, I want to, to ask you, how large part of the benefit potential from your projects and programs do you, on average, realize in your organization? And we're going to put you out into breakout rooms in a little while. And so when you get out there with four or five other people, it's obviously polite just to say hello. So please maybe say, okay, hi, I'm Mariana. I worked at Novo Nordisk and I'm a project manager. If you do it much more elaborate. If you do it much more elaborate than that, you know, there won't be much time to actually discuss the issue because you'll only have around six minutes out there. But please discuss, you know, how, how large part of the benefit potential are you realizing? And then when you get back, then there will be a poll and that we will kindly ask you to, to answer that poll when you get back. But, but for now, enjoy six minutes out there in, in the breakout room. And discuss how large part of the benefit potential are you realizing in your organization? Enjoy. Hello again, and welcome back. I can see that many of you were reluctant to actually leave your breakout rooms. So I, I assume that you, you had a good discussion. What we'd like you to do now is just to answer this small poll that my good colleague will be launching now. And, uh, and, uh, obviously this is, this is not sort of a, an academic exercise. It's more sort of taking the, uh, pistol out of the holster and then, uh, giving it your, your best shot. So, uh, so, uh, so please, uh, share your gut feel about how we are actually, uh, doing, uh, when it comes to benefit realization in your organization and see where that, uh, that leaves us. Yes, I can see quite a few votes, uh, coming in. Yeah. All right. Um, please, uh, share the results. And, uh, and, um, and, um, and this is, uh, this is then, uh, how it looks like. So there seems to be a vast majority of you who believe that the organization, uh, is realizing less than half of the benefits. So, so putting you sort of in the same situation as, as, uh, the large, uh, IT projects that we, uh, we discussed before. And, and, um, um, we've actually, um, done this exercise or doing this small polling, um, uh, digitally now that we are in a Corona, but also sort of, uh, uh, uh, with, uh, a raise of hands, uh, before. And it turns out that, that we almost always get exactly the same result. And that is, uh, exactly the same result as, as we got today. So, um, um, um, even though it's not very scientific, uh, analysis, is, I guess that there are, there is a, is a tendency to, uh, that, that they can't really be overheard. So I was just wondering if, if, uh, any of you would like to share, uh, a reflection or, um, or, uh, uh, an idea about why it is like it is, you know, feel free to, uh, to use the chat or, um, unmute if you dare, if you have a reflection. If not, we will, uh, take it to the next step. I have a reflection. You have a reflection. Oh, how nice. Um, I mean, if, if your question is around why you get that result, uh, you know, taking into consideration that you're going to talk about behavior in a moment, it's probably because you prime the whole audience. Right. That's a good. In the beginning. Mass, mass tells me that all the time. Yes. So of course there's some, some level of priming in it. Yes. I, I, I agree. So, so with that sort of priming, people prefer conformity because they know if they say over 80%, they're going to be sticking out. Right. So, so that's specifically, but with that said, I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. Um, and, and that has to do with the fact that, uh, you're asking about the potential of something. And oftentimes, you know, potential is based on ideals. Right. You know, what, what, what is, what is my, what is my potential as a human being? Right. Do I live my potential to the fullest? Well, probably not because you know, I'm human. So, so yeah, there's, there's something in the, in, in, in the question itself. I agree with you. And I, and, and thank you for that comment and best masses masses constantly telling me the, the, the same thing. So, so the, the, the thing is just, you know, how do we face that question in order to actually, uh, being able to ask, it without doing, uh, too much priming because, um, the, the result that, that you just gave us and the data that we saw from the auditors, uh, a moment ago, um, uh, pretty much tells us the, the, the same story. So, um, so, uh, if you have any good ideas, please, uh, please, uh, please share them with us, uh, after, after sort of the, the formal session, we would love to get your input on that. Um, Oh, that was one too many. This slide is one we use to actually, um, uh, illustrate why we believe that we are in the position that we can. And, and, and obviously, um, if I went into your organization and ask you or one of your colleagues or parts of your management team, do you believe that benefits are important? They would almost certainly all of them say yes. If I ask them, do you believe that organizational change is important? Then they would almost certainly all of them say yes. But when we look at people, uh, when we look at what they're actually spending their time on, then most of the time actually goes into the technical deliverables. And then again, it's, it's back to what Helena said in the beginning. Maybe we are all, we are also primed to think projects as being, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the production of deliverables instead of a lot of other things. And so we believe that there are at least two things we need to change in order to get different results. And, and the first one is to, um, to suggest an, another view of, uh, another way of looking at change projects. And that's kind of fairly easy because we, we, we, we sort of have, uh, um, we, we sort of hope to solve that, uh, uh, uh, problem on the next slide because there we have, uh, a new view on change projects. The, the, the, the, the second thing we need to do is to, uh, make it easier and practical to actually work with benefit realization and change because we, we spent, um, maybe since the sixties on becoming actually very, very good at producing technical deliverables, but we have not nearly to the same extent practiced in becoming good at, uh, making organizational change work and, and actually work with benefit realization. So what our ambition is and what we're going to be talking about for, for the rest of the day is actually how can we make working with benefit realization and change easier. So, um, so that's what we're going to talk about. But before we do that, I just want to show you this one slide. And the good thing about this slide is that it's one of those where you don't have to read everything in order to sort of get the main message. But, uh, but since you probably want to look at it after words, uh, you, uh, you get, uh, you get a detailed version, but what I really want you to look at in the beginning is that, that, um, we actually, uh, have a very simple, uh, project model down here in the bottom. So there's analysis, execution and realization, and it's probably a slightly more simple than the project models you have at home, but, but nevertheless, and on, uh, and higher up, we have, uh, the three major tracks or, groups of, uh, um, of jobs to be done in a project. And, uh, obviously, you know, it's, it's not that, that the technical stuff has become unimportant. Uh, you know, it's, it's still very, very important. It's just not the only thing that's important because I'm sorry, on top of the technical track, we also have a change track and a benefit track. And I, what I want you to notice is that, you know, those three tracks, they are there. We are there for the duration of the project, except for the benefit track that actually continues after the project is done because we want to, uh, do some structured follow-up on, uh, on whether we're getting the benefits or not. So that is sort of the main image that we have for change projects. And we believe that that is helping us to change the conversations about, um, how we look at change projects. And so what I also want you to notice here is that, you know, everything is kicked up by, uh, a workshop where we actually design the project in order to realize as many benefits as possible. And that is sort of the, the kickoff for the entire analysis, not only of the, the benefits and the, change, but also, uh, uh, of the technical track. So, uh, so getting the, the design right is, uh, is, is crucial. So we're going to, uh, talk about that, um, in more details, uh, right now. And, uh, as I shared with you, uh, earlier, um, I spent the first 10 years of my career in both, uh, private and public organizations, uh, doing projects and programs, uh, doing projects and programs. And this sort of illustrates the way that almost all of those projects were designed. And, you know, it's, it's exaggerating a little bit, but I hope you will bear with me to sort of get, um, um, get the point through, but most of the projects, they were started out by, uh, somebody who got a great idea for purpose of the project. And, uh, uh, either a manager or portfolio board was then convinced that, you know, this was really a good idea. And then, uh, somehow they found me in the hallway and, uh, asked me to run a project. And what I did was then to, uh, do whatever project deliverables they asked me to do, being it a lighting system or product or whatever. And then I built it. And then, you know, um, also, um, exaggerating perhaps a little bit, but, but, but what we basically did was, you know, to, to cross our fingers and then hope that these deliverables ended up fulfilling our purpose. And I guess you can say that if you're really, really eager to be part of the, um, the statistics that we, uh, we showed before, then this is really the right way to go about designing your projects, because then, uh, it, it is likely that you're not going to realize a lot of benefits. So instead, um, what we want you to do is to look at the whole benefit realization process. And that process still starts out with a purpose, because that is a very, very important part, um, to, uh, to, uh, to, to, to agree on because it sets the overall direction, uh, for the project. But then instead of jumping straight into the deliverables, then we asked, okay, uh, let's say the purpose is efficiency. Or we want to be more effective. Um, then a benefit could be that we want to save some money. And, you know, that is, uh, one of those benefits that most organizations experience one point, uh, at one point or another, but, but then the problem, then the, the, the, um, the next step is not, you know, just to say, okay, we want to, uh, to save, um, uh, a few million, uh, krona in, uh, in, uh, in, let's say procurement. The next thing is then, okay, say, you know, we, we want, we believe that we can save money. And procurement, but we need to, to understand what drives that, uh, reduction of cost. And in, in the case of procurement, it could be that maybe we get a more efficient, uh, procurement process, or, or we start buying at, uh, other vendors that we have a good purchasing agreements with. So, so we try to break down the benefits to not only have sort of financial benefits, but also figuring out how do they, how do they actually, um, what are their sort of primary prerequisites. And then we keep on breaking it down until we end up, uh, with people in the organization that needs to change their behavior. And obviously in, in this case, it's the people in the procurement, uh, uh, the purchasing department. And, and what we need to, um, to, uh, to do is then that, uh, we, we need to figure out, okay, you know, what are they doing right now? Uh, and how big a change is this for them? I mean, if they're very digitalized group, it might not be a big change. If you're sort of, uh, pulling them 25 years, um, across time digitally, it might be a very large, um, change. So basically what we need to figure out is, okay, what is it, you know, how big a change is it and how can we help these people, um, in the purchasing department, uh, change behavior. And basically that is, you know, all the stuff that the project is about, because after we've sort of settled on what type of benefits that we want to realize, then everything about, uh, the project is making sure that we help this group of people change behavior in order to realize those benefits. And they might, you know, need sort of practical, or they need, you know, assistance to actually get through the change. Uh, maybe there's some resistance that needs to be handled. Uh, so they might need help to, uh, to get through that. They may also need new competences. And obviously they probably also need new deliverables because, you know, they might need that new IT system and they might need that new process. And so obviously we need to, uh, to provide them with that. But again, it's, um, it's, um, it's just a mean to get, uh, to help our good colleagues in, uh, in the personal, uh, department to change behavior. And the interesting thing about this, uh, benefit realization process is, is it, that is it, that it is a cause and effect relationship that's sort of behind it. So if you can, uh, take off the project deliverables, if you can take off the competencies, and if you can take off the new behaviors, you're very likely to actually realize the benefits. But obviously if you can take them all off, then you are not likely to get the benefits. And so I'd just, uh, like to ask you and feel free to either unmute or comment in the chat. Um, when we are not realizing all of our benefits, which of those three here, um, are we missing out on, you know, where is, uh, where, where, where, where are we going? We're not succeeding. We're not succeeding causing, uh, cause, uh, where's the most, um, likely place that, uh, that, uh, we are not succeeding. And so, uh, we're not realizing that the benefits that we could. Pils, uh, feel free to, uh, to share your perspective. Um, where, where are we not succeeding? What is the main reason for the lack of benefit realization when you look at that, uh, benefit realization process? i'll give it another go if that's okay yeah give it another go um i think i if if i had to pick one i'd i'd pick somewhere between the the competencies and the behavior right yeah it depends on what you're trying to get people to do right you can't you can't get people to behave in certain ways if they don't know how right so you need to teach them how to do stuff yes and then then you need to to teach them to to keep doing that so because because work at the end of the day is what we do right yes so but in order to do something you need to you need to have the knowledge to do it i i i totally agree um i think there's also uh stina in the chat also replies uh new competencies and and and i guess you know uh you're both right that if you don't have the competencies you know it's it's likely that we will probably also fail in in getting new behavior um my personal experience is that that uh most organizations are actually likely uh to uh to actually focus on the the new competencies and then um put people you know uh through some training and then maybe even give them a test and then assume that they will probably engage in the new behavior and so from my personal experience you know i've you know i've i've built stuff and then i you know uh i am more or less forced people to actually attend training and they all passed the test uh but but but then some of them just went back and and uh did their job the way that they've been doing for the last 25 years and then nothing really happens so so i think that in some cases yes the competencies um you know are to be blamed that are to be blamed that because we we have not made it possible for them to actually change behavior but in many cases i think you know when it actually comes to changing the way you work then uh we uh we we have the major problem there but uh and yes and as anna said the new new behavior um i actually believe or we believe that the new behavior is a is the largest sinner here uh quickly followed by uh new competencies so what we want to do is that we uh we want to do is that we uh we want to get uh people in a room to actually design the project right and i want to show you an example of how that can uh can look like uh and this is an example from a bank it's actually from a new credit um um a company i i used to uh work with and whom i've done a lot of um of uh events like this with um and and and and and um just to just to just let you know that the process is up here so the purpose the benefit the behavior and the competencies and the deliverables and so what we actually do is that um we uh put people in a room and um we agree on what the purpose is and um and uh obviously if you haven't done it already that is the first and most important step and what we then want to do is of course to be specific on the benefits. And this is sort of, this is the end result of an analysis of the benefits. And that's why, you know, they were actually able to sort of, in the end, put, you know, specific targets or a specific number of millions on how much revenue they wanted to get out of approaching a new segment. Obviously, you don't know that in the beginning, but it is important from the beginning to state that, okay, what our benefits are actually to chase a certain amount of revenue if that is what you're chasing. Then it was breaking up in some sub-segments, but it turns out that what really triggered this increase in revenue was that they were able to get 270 new customers each year. And that was very, very important to get in place because, you know, the cost and effect relationship here said that, you know, if we got X amount of customers, we would also get the revenue that we wanted, which will make the project a success. So, so far, so good. And actually, when we were in that workshop, there were people in there who had some pretty accurate knowledge. So we could sort of, it's not exactly 270 that was brought up in the workshop, but it was a number similar to that. Then the next question was, you know, who actually needs to change behavior? And it turns out that we could, it was assembling a new team of advisors that were going to approach this group of doctors and dentists that were not really sort of in the customer portfolio right now, but they believed that they had a specific value proposition that was attracted to them. And so one person in the workshop asked, okay, so this is not a group of, you know, advisor ninjas that we are assembling sort of from the best part of the organization. It's just a group of people. So, so what do they actually need to do in order to get 270 new customers each year? Because what are they actually doing right now? And it turns out that they were actually mostly sitting by the phone waiting for some of their current customers to call them. And what we needed to do was to actually make sure that they actually were sort of reaching out to customers to a much larger extent. We found out that they needed to increase their sort of proactive customer engagement by a factor of eight. So they need to do many more calls, many more emails, many more meetings. And what we also found out that was that the hit radio ratio. They, that needed to, when they actually had the conversation with the, with the customer that needed to increase from about 10% to probably 20. And so in that workshop, we have a conversation and I'm guessing sort of in respect for, for master's time. I won't ask you all to, to unmute, but you, you know, feel free to share your reflections in the chat, but, but the reflection, the question here was, you know, is this even possible? Can, can we, can we even do this? And, and, and, and actually that there was concern 45 minutes inside this workshop that, that this would actually be possible. But since it was a part of a large, a large strategic move, then they said, okay, we needed to, we need to actually succeed with this. And what they did was that they put much more effort into sort of the change part of the change part of the coaching and the follow-up. They changed the competency efforts from one week to four weeks to actually make them experts in this particular area where the customers operated. And then they twisted the value proposition a little bit. And after that, this becomes a very boring example because then it was very successful. But the key point here is that we need to have the conversation about what this actually means to our, to our, to our, to our, to our organization very, very early. And that is actually the, the first critical step on our way to, to benefit realization. That is to, to get the, the, the clarity about what this requires of, of your organization. And of course, since this is also about benefits, then they also wanted to track what, if they were actually successful in, in, in real life. Well, you can achieve. And in real life, really value because the, if they were actually, de products and live. And they went really towards our business and live. 70 new customers to be onboarded every year. And then, of course, it required a whole new way of working for the new credit advisors. And again, that they were also trained the way they should. So we actually had quite a few leading indicators giving us a good idea about, okay, they now have the competences, they now have changed behavior. We can now see that the customers are coming in. And so finally, we could also see that they were actually making the increase in revenue that they should. And obviously, that is the way we want to measure on benefit utilization. Yes. Yeah, and I can see that Anders has a question. He says, how did the advisor team perceive that they had to call new customers with a factor eight? It seems like a knack and not a nudge. Yes. And that was exactly why we wondered if this was actually going to be possible. But they found a group of people. I think they maybe switched one or two people in the group. And then they were just giving a lot of attention and were really involved in the process. So it actually turned out that most of them were actually eager to be giving an opportunity to do something else. And there's another question I can see. Yeah. And it's Camilla who says, how do you define the benefit highway? Or do you define the benefit highway at the initial workshop or later on? Well, sometimes it's very clear from the initial workshop. Sometimes we need to go through an analysis process where we actually figure out whether, you know, are the benefits really that great. And there was a 270 or was it actually 350. And so it can change along the way. We try to sort of get an idea about it in the first workshop. But it can obviously change when we get wiser. Cool. This was the brief introduction to benefit realization. And so what we have on our agenda now is another brief reflection in breakout rooms. So what we would like you to spend five minutes discussing is what would it mean to your organization if benefit realization was applied in all of your projects? Meaning, you know, what would it mean if you actually designed your projects in this way? Follow up on benefits along the way and also after the project. So please jump into the breakout rooms and have a conversation about that. Welcome back. As you're all getting seated, I'll just start talking so you can hear in your speakers that now something is happening and you should be returning to your seats. a lot more. As much as I can hear in my experience. and negócio that we're talking about. Yeah, So everybody is somewhere in the doubt and the low percentages in terms of which benefits we're realizing. And obviously, there could be some priming, but maybe there should also be a category saying, we don't know. Because maybe you are new to the benefits realization method. But maybe also the scoping of the project becomes somewhat foggy along the way as to what is that we're actually succeeding, trying to succeed with. So maybe we'll add, and I don't know, the next time and we'll see where we how many we get to pick that. But anyway, I'll be covering the behavioral part, like I said, and there are really some things that changes the mindset for the project here. One thing is that when we're kind of prying this change track that the Asmus show showed you in the in the method earlier, we want to start working with the project as a quest to reach a solid state, right? We don't want change to be a change, we want to change for something where we're doing new things without thinking about it, right? And within behavioral design, we're looking at three things that are key in order to to reaching this potential for the project. One thing is that we come up with something that to the recipient is attractive to actually do. And that is all about framing and also about designing interventions that the other solutions that you're coming up with, in an in a nice manner so that when I see it, I can also relate to it and say, Okay, so actually, I want to do this and understand why we're doing. Then there's a part where we're doing. Then there's a part where we say, it has to be achievable, right? And I have to know when I'm supposed to do something with whatever you came up with, on my behalf. So making it achievable and activated in your solutions as well. So I can say I can or I must do this at this point, is also part of the project now. And then there's a part where we're doing. And then there's this thing about frequency. Because if we are launching something where we're only encountering it, say, every six months, or we're not really, you know, conscious about when to do things, and it's not embedded into our everyday, then we're not building a habit around it. And so this change track or this tale of change initiatives, often pops up where we're trying to rebuild energy into our initiative, after the project is actually finished. So if you design for frequency, even if you cut whatever you want people to do down into tiny bits, along the way, so that you are sure that they will actually repeat doing things, then we're in a great place. So those three, attractive, achievable and frequency, and then maybe also activated, is quite key to remember as a mindset for the project going forward. Now, another thing is this thing about change, being changed to reach the solid state after the project is done. Because if we if we look at a ladder, we know that habits is the easiest thing we're doing, and it's the most unconscious thing we're doing. So it's, it's both something that we're very used to doing, and it also saves a lot of energy for us to spend on something else, right. So to begin with, if we're asked to do a new thing, we should be at the somewhere at the bottom of the ladder where we say, Okay, so I'm told to do this, I'll do it. But I really have to think hard in order to, to complete this, this task, I'm asked to do right. If we are building for habits, then we should see people climb this ladder. And the top goal would be that we have behavior occurring, without us ever thinking about it again. If you reflect back to your daily work life, I think you would say, you would agree that most of what you're doing actually right now, is at the top of this ladder. And this is really where we want the change project to move to, right. So, again, if you remember the mantra, attractive, achievable and activated. so yeah, and frequency as well, then we, we could start the client deputy item. Then let me go back to behavioral design because we're kind of on the quest here and you may know behavioral design now. A lot of great books have been written, a lot of great talks have been done, a lot of great projects have come out of this, this methodology. And to begin with, where where we're, we're starting with this equation as to what leads to behavior. For centuries and in too many projects, we've seen that this equation has been what has been used and understood as the way to reach behavior. If we install enough knowledge into the heads of people, if we tell them enough times that this is important and this is how you're supposed to do it, then we could also build up an attitude with them that they say, yes, it's important and I care for it, and then they would change behavior. Now, if this was true, we would probably see maybe even the entire green agenda move a bit faster than what it does today, right? We may also see, you know, time registration and these little nice things installed into our companies being used even more because people understand that it's important. But they're not really doing it. So we're trying to rewrite this equation and saying instead of knowledge and attitude, we are seeking to build motivation. So we're trying to understand why is it important to you and or how could you succeed with that? And what are you striving for in this project? If anything, we're trying to build the ability. So giving you, as I'm the center of this project, giving you this sense that your efforts to build this sense that your efforts are worthwhile and you can actually succeed with this, right? And then we're trying to install the trigger because if we make the initiatives ever available, right? And something that is for the recipient to actually figure out when to do, then it kind of wobbles the entire success of the initiative. So if we can consider how to actually put in a little spark or a little trigger right before we want this behavior to occur as part of the design of the project, then we're also in a very nice place. So the equation has changed from knowledge and attitude to motivation, ability and trigger. And I'll move into that in just a bit. Another part of behavioral design is our understanding of human beings. So this is all about humans. And really, there is a a vast, you know, a series of studies into why we act the way we do. And just to briefly sum it up. You would say that we have two parts of our minds. It's not left and right or anything, but there are two tendencies that we see in all these studies. One thing is that behavior is driven by what we call an elephant. So the elephant is very intuitive. It's very quick in its actions. It's automatic, which means that it's it's always on in some way. So it's constantly scans the room and what's available around me and how I'm feeling in order to act with or on that. The elephant is also not interested in spending too much energy. So the energy will go where it's easiest applied. So it has a very low energy consumption. The elephant is also warm. If it does not like where it is, then it will move away from it, it will fight it. Or it may even freeze at the spot because it feels threatened. So a lot of emotions going on this part of us, right? And then, as I said, it's online, which means you cannot switch off the elephant, it is always there. And it's actually I'll get to a point where I tell you that that's actually quite important. On top of this elephant, in our minds is a rider. Now the rider is is holding the rails of this elephant, right? The rider is very analytical. The rider has the oversight of everything and why we're doing things, right? The rider knows that if we move down this path, we will get to where we want to be in, say, five weeks or two years or 10 years. And that's enough for the rider to know that even though it's a burdensome track that we're traveling, it's worth the effort to actually get there. Now, the rider is very conscious, which means that if the rider is working on something, not a lot else is happening around it. Now, if you consider you doing a math assignment, it's very difficult to follow along in your Netflix series, as well as having a conversation with your spouse at the same time. It really just consumes all the energy that you have, all the cognitive bandwidth, as you would, that you have available to get to this place, to get through the math, right? So that's why the rider is also concerned with very high energy consumption. Now, the rider does not care for emotions. It cares for facts, and it cares for, you know, the end goal of things. So it's very, it's a very cool person sitting up there. And then the final part, and that's the interesting part, that is, is that where we usually thought of the rider being in control of things, it actually appears that the rider is offline, which means that we have to kind of call upon this rider person in order to bring its attention to something. And that actually makes sense. Because if we were to stop and ask the rider to kind of look at everything we were doing during our everyday, then we wouldn't get that far. If I were to consider all the time, if I'm having this, holding this, clicker in my left or right hand, or how to open the door in the most sufficient manner, or whether there's a threat around me, and I needed to scan the room very meticulously all the time, then I would spend my entire energy during that, and I may not make it past 10 o'clock in the morning, because I would simply just run out of battery. So these two, they are, they're working together. But the elephant is mainly in control in human beings on an everyday basis. Now the question for you, if you're looking at your projects, and we're looking at these two parts of us. Who do you mainly speak to with your initiatives, when we're doing projects? Are you talking to the elephant, the intuitive parts of us? Or are you talking to the rider, or are you talking to the rider, the more rational, say, the more hard thinking part of us? So if we're launching the poll right now, let's just get your input here. So who is the project actually designed for? We'll see. And I see that you're all putting in your answers. That's very nice. And we'll give you 20 more seconds. Very nice. So the answers are coming in. I'll share them in the eight seconds now. Let's see. All right, so let's share it now. So this picture isn't seldom as well. And maybe Michael, you would say that I primed you as well. But I think there's some truth to this story when talking about projects that we try to have people understand and try to have people being rational about what the project is trying to achieve and really have them dig into this. Because there is, you know, at the end of the road, there is a huge benefit to actually to reach. Now, it's important that we're not trying to get rid of the rider at all. But we need to back it more up with some initiatives that caters for the elephant, the everyday thing. Because if you look at the picture with the rider on top of the elephant, the elephant is the one taking all the steps towards where we want to go, right? So the elephant has to feel comfortable with what's going on and has to have an idea that it's actually able to succeed with what it's asked to do. And that requires us maybe cutting down the project by cutting down the project to bite-sized elements along the way. Now, behavioral design is a very nice method. And as you may notice now, it has a very big catalog of theories behind it, right? And that also means for a mindset like this to actually be applicable, you should maybe read a book or at least join a session like this in order to get an idea of where we're coming from with this. But behavioral design has also proven a project method. So it stands alone. But to us, as we looked at it, behavioral design is very much a microscope. So it dives into what we human beings are and how we act and why we're doing it, right? So it comes from a place where we really studied people deeply. And maybe that doesn't fit in itself that well with these very large projects that we're trying to succeed with. So benefit realization has kind of part up with behavioral design in order for us to talk both about, you know, the large numbers, but also ensuring that we have the human human factor as part of the project and what it's supposed to succeed with. And Helena is closing in on me. Yes. My elephant reacted to that. Yes. It's just that we got a really good question. Yeah. And it's Helena who asked, can we answer both the rider and elephant? Because as we mentioned with the habits letter, when we try to change behavior, you first work with repetitions and should-dos. So it is speaking to the rider. So it is speaking to the rider, but then you aim for this behavior to become more automatic or default. So at this point, it's the elephant. Yeah. Yes, Kalina, you should be able to answer both, of course, because like I just said, that that's where we want to go, right? So for future events, we'll make sure to make this a multiple answers option because you want that balance, right? You want to have them both installed. And so another note to this is, I really like the way you put that into a linear, right? So we start to work first with repetitions and should-dos, and then we aim for the behavior to become more automatic and default. That's really where we want to go, right? So thank you for that comment, and we'll ensure that you can have multiple answers going forward. I'll recommend readings on the rider and the elephant. Those who came up with it was Stan and Chip Heath, and they wrote a book called Switch. It's the best book I've ever read on behavioral design. So please do go and look it up. It's kind of old, but then again, so are we human beings. So nothing is obsolete or outdated in that book. All right. So I told you that we were here. I just mentioned this project model, and I want to talk about how we get started with talking about behavior, right? Like I said, we kind of pried the change track into the classic benefit realization project model. And we did that in order to have humans more present in the conversations that we have about what the project is supposed to succeed with, right? What this does, what this does, that we now have this yellow track, is that when we usually, or to our experience, when we saw these very dire projects, we would see that the human attention or the attention to behavior would look something like this. So in the planning phase of the project, where you're actually trying to figure out what we're supposed to succeed with, you're somewhere in between defining your benefits and looking into what the technical track should actually deliver, right? So not a lot about humans in this. Then at some point, when you want to execute the project, you have a town hall or something where you actually engage with people and say, this is happening. And there is a huge booklet here for you to read. And how to do it. And the reason why we're doing it is that it's because we're reaching for 25% something, something now, now go do. So it kind of has a spark. And then as the project is complete, you, you realize that behavior may not be happening as you wanted it. And so you start to change manage things and you start to have this very, this huge drag of initiatives coming after the project is actually done. And we don't quite like that picture. So what it actually does is that it kicks off the human attention, this little yellow road that we put in and the attention to behavior at the very beginning of the project. So we know what we want to achieve and what the project has to succeed with in order for us to move from a change state to a solid state with the project, right? Now to sum up the elephant and rider, you know, the elephant and the rider would look like this. And what we're dealing with when we're in the project is the path. So the path they're walking, right? And that's the design of our initiatives. So from Dan and Chip Heath, you would see these, these three distinctions. And, and really, whereas the rider and the elephant is in our heads and our bodies and our minds, then the path is what's all around us, the the design of the project. So, so if you want that, you can, you can use that and read about it in the book. In the project model, we're kicking off with a change workshop. Now, this comes at a time where we're starting to define our benefits. It comes at a time where we've already maybe have discussed, you know, the technology that we want to support us in the way of reaching the benefits. So now we are dealing with the people who are supposed to use it, right? We came up with the design for a change workshop because of the solution bias, as you may know, some of you, and the solution bias is the tendency that if we have a problem or an issue or somewhere, we don't, a state we don't like to be in, we immediately look for the solution to that problem. And we don't become, what do you call it? Curious about where does the problem actually come from? Or what does it actually consist of? No, we jump straight to the technical solution that may solve this. In 2019 and 2020, I would bank on that nine out of 10 times someone would say, let's make an app to this problem. And then they, they would do that, right? Without ever really investigating what the problem actually was, what the root causes were. So we're trying to look into that. So we're trying to look into that and kind of get a more nuanced picture of what the project has to succeed with. The change workshop is built in five elements. So first of all, we want to cater for the writer. We want to say, this is where we're going, right? This is the destination. We're reaching for 25% or we're reaching for 10% or we're reaching for something that this project that gave the project, that gave the project its birthright to begin with, right? Now, with the destination for the project, we also ask the people in the room. So if we reach this destination, what does it then look like to you? So now we're starting to talk to the motivation for people, right? What does it mean to you if we get to the 25%? What does it look like? And we talk about reactions, I'll get into that. Then we talk about barriers, I'll get into that as well. And then at the final point, we actually have the people in the room describe what they believe are crucial activities for the project to embed in order to reach the destination. So these five things are what kind of consists of the change workshop. Now, like I said, you'll get this in your slides, but the destination would look something like that, right? Working with that. So you have some descriptions that you put up. We like to do it in the room. Right now, we're doing it virtually. But really what you're looking for descriptions of very concrete things that you would be able to see if you stood in the room, the day that the project has succeeded. In terms of resistance, I promised you that I'd get into this. And we're using Rick Maurer, if you know that this person now. Rick Maurer came up with four elements of resistance. Actually three, we came up with the fourth. So one resistance level that you may encounter with your project is due to a person saying, I don't get it. So this person is in need of more information or more skills to actually succeed with what you are asking. Right now in the change workshop, we're looking at the destination and what we need to start, stop and keep in the project and say, would anyone have this reaction if we launch the project today? Would we need more competences or something like that? Right? So where is, where are the I don't get it reactions and what would they look like? Where would they come from? The second part is a reaction saying, I don't like it. So that's the emotional reaction that you are threatened in some way on your status. Maybe you are asked to if you move into a more digitalized way of working. You have to move into a more digitalized way of working. And you've been doing the same thing for 20 years with paper and pen. So all of a sudden, your status or your work, your job may seem threatened. Right? So you have a fear of being obsolete and redundant with the result of this project. Now, this is somewhat more difficult to actually work with in the project, but you need to talk it through in order to be ready for this kind of reaction. The third one is I don't like you. Now the messenger of the project may have an issue. In some of the projects I've been in, you see that HQ comes up with great initiatives and then they send it out and then people say, that's not going to happen. We don't like it. You never talk to us. It's always you. It's always you come up with the great ideas, but the great ideas never fit our world and so forth. Right? So HQ has become an issue because there's a center, the messenger of this change initiative. And if that is at all present in your project, then there are some considerations to do. Maybe are you switching messenger or are you, you should be handling the communication in a very way, or what you call it, what you call it, deliberate way, at least. Right? So we talked these through as well. Now, for the barriers. And for to understand the barriers, I think I need a picture like this. Because projects are great in itself, because we really think things through. And we come up with all these great parts of the project that we want to install in order for people to succeed with it. And you can have an image of it, like just like this road in this intersection in Copenhagen, where you have all sorts of things kind of guiding people for the behavior that you want from them. Right? You have lights, you have, you know, lines indicating where the bikes are supposed to be. You have cars, you have cars, you have cars, you have cars, you have cars, you have cars, you have cars, you know that they're not supposed to run into the bicycles. And you may also have been through elementary school where you had the bicycle driver's license taken, where you kind of drive around. So you know what you're supposed to do and how to do it. You have the ability to do it. And then there is this guy, a so called mammal I've learned since I'm part of him too, a middle aged man in Lycra. and the mammal guy he kind of deviates from everything he says i see your intention and i don't care for it so i'm just going to go on the road and drive right and that we could explain that by saying okay so that's the mammal he's always you know in in contrast or trying trying to kind of go against our initiatives and it's it's so annoying but i mean we can't do anything about him right so it becomes him uh being the problem for our change initiative and we don't like that because there are a lot of things going on here i'll show you in a bit that actually could explain why this mammal is deviating from uh our good intentions because he still has somewhere he wants to go so he's still trying to to succeed with his task but he's just not doing it within the reasons that we came up with in order to find these we're using a barrier wheel now the barrier wheel consists of seven elements that kind of picks apart whatever barriers there could be to uh to the behavior we want to uh to see and it's something on say the processes that we're working with right now if if the change that we're want is in such and so on say the change that we want to do right now if we want to do what we want to do right there may be technologies that we either are missing or that is not up to date with with our initiative with the project scope there may be groups so select groups with subcultures say the mammal is is part of that where they have a tendency to kind of disrupt our initiatives. So maybe there's a barrier within that. If we're looking for more innovation in our projects or maybe a more speedy time to market, then the organizational structure could be a barrier. So we realize that we know all these things, but we just haven't categorized it. And we just described everything as being the problem instead of putting them into these boxes, right? So in the workshop, it would look like this. So we would get all these barriers that we at least need to bring our attention to briefly in order to consider, is this something, is this so dire or grave, the barrier that comes up here that the project needs to deal with it? And also, do we return to our benefits and say, if we're dealing with this problem, do we still believe that we can achieve these benefits? Now that the project scope may be changing. So this workshop really enlightens, you know, the entire project and its success factors. And going back to the mammal, what a barrier wheel work would do to this was that it will kind of open up for the context of things, right? And now this mammal is obviously on a racing bike, and he's supposed to go very fast because he needs to make it to get his guitar lesson, right? And for him to succeed with that, that's his task. He has to go around all of this. Because there is so much going on here, where he can succeed with what he's asked to do. So that's an issue. And we'll, we can't get to this spot unless we decide to open up the door from the project room and do a barrier analysis and ask people outside of the room, what is actually going on? What are the barriers? What do you think are the initiatives? Who are we supposed to be focusing on? Who could resist this? What would their resistance look like? And so forth. We can't figure that out ourselves. We're just humans. And we have bounded rationality in our understanding of what the world looks like, and especially what the organization looks like. So let's have a discussion here because as you may have noticed and been very frustrated about, I never told you who I would invite into this workshop. So I'm going to give you say five minutes in a breakout and just have a brief discussion saying, if we're looking into this, we want to get these insights from the change workshop. Who would we invite into the room in in order to get these answers? So I'll give you five minutes and we're starting now. Welcome back. It's a, it's actually, it's really nice. Whenever you're in breakouts and you come back, you still have your cameras on. And I just want to say, I really appreciate that brief split second where I can see that there are actually human beings on the other side of this camera and the lights and waving to you as well. And the hi Alex. It's so nice to see you. Oh, you're all there. Now I get to see a lot of people. So thank you for that. That's a huge and very nice feedback to have because otherwise I'm looking into a post-it with this little smiley guy trying to tell me to both look into the camera and smile at the same time. And he's really not that, you know, he's really not responding that much to me. It just seems like everything is great. Well, in terms of behavioral design, you should just automatically keep it on, right? So that's just a suggestion. That's true. We would not put anyone in the position where, where they're shown on camera so that if they don't want to, so it's a, it's just a nice bonus. But yeah, if, if we, if we were really aiming to have the cameras on for everybody, I guess that's a, that's an option in, in zoom. I actually don't know. All right. So back, back on track here. In terms of who you would invite. Could one of you, let's say anyone could write in the chat who you would invite into this kind of workshop, because it's quite crucial. I'm going to talk while, while you're writing in the chat. So it gets us kicked off, right? So it's at the very beginning. It's a, it's right here. In our, in our estimation of the change effort. So it's supposed to enrich, enrich the project. And, and kind of set the scope, right? And Clara, you, you started out people affected by a change. Yes. Someone who can represent whomever you want to succeed on behalf of or with, with the project. That would be a great idea. Informal leaders. And then shadow connectors. I'm guessing that would be the same as an informal leader. So someone who is very outspoken and kind of sets the tone. Am I, am I right? I'm guessing. Now, Alex, that's, that's an interesting input. The biggest bottleneck. So am I supposed to understand it as where you perceive the biggest barriers to be? Yeah. All right. So you could invite those. And, and honest, the people whose behavior you'd like to change. I think you're, you're quite, you're, you're kind of onto something here, right? Obviously we want someone in the room that can represent those outside the door, right? We cannot invite everybody because sometimes it has, it's an initiative covering maybe a hundred people or 500 people. So we can't have that kind of workshop, but someone who's been in the room next to us, where the project is supposed to live. Those we're inviting in. And if we, if we, if we can get a leader in combination with say those shadow connectors, or maybe someone who we know is going to go against or be a barrier in the project and maybe be outspoken about it, then that's nice. But the number one, I think the conclusion to this is that you should invite someone outside the room into this workshop. And then as you're done, you're looking into not an entirely different project, but you're looking into a very much finely grained project with the initiatives defined by those who are supposed to receive it. And then you can have a discussion on whether the project is supposed to embed that. Maybe it's for something later. You can go up to those owning the benefit track and saying, this is now what we're supposed to do. Do we still trust in the benefits? And, uh, every time we've done this, something that we've done this, something that we didn't know came up that the project had to, to counter or to work with in order to be a success. So it's, it's a great investment, uh, to do. Now, um, that, that, that kind of exceeds, uh, my time. Uh, so I, I hope you, you kind of get the gist of what the, what we're trying to do here, both with the mindset on behavioral design, but also, uh, with, with the very concrete tool that is, uh, change workshop to get things started. What we need to know. That is that we're dealing with humans here. Right. And, uh, with humans also comes not irrational behavior, but at least non-rational behavior. And, uh, I, I took this, uh, picture at a, at a project I was at, uh, where I looked at this and I said, Oh, what a great idea to actually have, you know, nature and have a paved, uh, walkway where people could walk around to get to where they wanted to be. It's so nice. And then all of a sudden this, uh, elephant driven person decided to cross straight across the grass because it's so much easier to get to this door. If I cut through here, that's the easiest path I could possibly take, because if I walk here, I walk into a tree, right? And then someone else behind that person saw, ah, you're doing that. Okay. So I'm going to follow along because it will save me 0.2% of my energy to actually do this. Right. So this picture symbolizes to me what we're dealing with in ourselves and, and in other human beings, right? We constantly look for what's easiest and what doesn't consume that much energy. And actually to be quite frank, this is a quite nice, this is a nice solution to things, right? Because we want to get into the door. So why would I walk in 90 degree angles to get there? If I can just cross this path. So, uh, that, that was just a little reminder on who we're dealing with here. It's, uh, unfortunately not an app where I can just recode, uh, from one day to another. That's it on my part. And thank you guys for, uh, for leaning in, uh, both in the, in the chat and, uh, and the discussion. Yes. Uh, and we just all want to say thank you so much, uh, for being here. Uh, with us this morning. Um, and we will have another event on May 12th. We will share the link with you all by email, but we will dive a little bit deeper into the, the change in behavioral part that mess was just scratching the surface off. So we hope you, uh, you had a great time with us today. I don't know. Yeah. Last comment. As, uh, as, as we hope that you, uh, sort of sensed along the way today, then, uh, both mass and Helena and I, we're, you know, we're sort of on a mission to, uh, get more value out of our projects in, in a, in a human friendly way by, by working, uh, actively with beneficialization and change. And, and we're super nerdy, all of us. And, and we would really like to have a conversation with you. So we're going to stick around for a few minutes. If you have any questions or otherwise, you know, if there's something that you're wondering about, or, uh, would like some more material about, you know, feel free to reach out to, uh, to all of us because, uh, you know, we, um, we, we really want to make a, we really want to make a small dent in the universe. So, uh, so if we can help you in any sort of way, then please feel free to, uh, to reach out.