Welcome to OPEX 2020. Hosted by Implement Consulting Group, we're so excited to have you join us and we're hoping together with you to explore our theme, react, adapt and transform. My name is Susan Salzböner. Guten Morgen auch an alle deutschsprachigen da draußen. For the past 15 years, I have been supporting organizations and what it means to be fit for the future and fit for humans. And when it comes to transformations, I've been particularly nerdy about the people side of transformations because essentially most transformations are also a cultural change. With me, I have my good colleague Pedro. Hi Pedro. Hi Susan. And hi everybody. Bom dia a todos. My name is Pedro Diarizzo Maestrelli. I'm a manufacturing expert. I'm really passionate about digitalization. And I use most of our times with my clients with their actual transformations, helping them coming from A to B in large efforts. Now, some of you might know something about implement. For some others, that might be the first time you're hearing about us. Me and Susan today, we have the honor to represent more than 850 of our colleagues, spread across five different offices. Oh, sorry. Five different countries, seven different offices. And our services, they range everything from really strategy all the way to operation implementations. Now, this is a operations event. And for that, I would like to focus on our offerings that we go in this area. So first, at the strategic level, we see decisions or we help our clients with decisions on their supply chain setup, their manufacturing footprint, their distribution footprint, or even their sourcing strategy. And then we go to the tactical level. At that level, we're really talking about much more of our planning, end to end, or maybe an implementation of a new ERP system, an MAS system, or anything in between. Finally, we really go into the operational, where really magic happens, onto the shop floor, into the warehouses, where we look at each of the process and say, how can we optimize that together with our clients? Now, what really binds us together, Susan, is actually two different things. First, we really co-create the solutions with our clients. We don't come top down and say we know it all. The second thing is that we're really about being a transformation partner with our clients. So it's not only important to solve one single issue. It's basically important to understand which impact that will have for you. Right? Yes. But perhaps enough about implement. You can, of course, read more about us on our website. What we're really here to talk about is how do you future-proof your operations? And I think, you know, these past months we've all experienced how uncertain and volatile the future can be. But this isn't really a recent phenomenon. I think most of the clients that we've worked with and organizations we talked to have had this on the agenda of how do we actually shape our operations to become fit for the future? And I think there's a lot we can learn from the speakers and cases that we've invited to talk to us today. And building upon that, Susan, I think that, you know, traditionally supply chain operations, they're really all about saying, okay, do we need cost -focused supply chain operations or a really agile one where it can basically do it all and serve all different types of customers? This is not enough anymore. There needs to be some combination. You need to bring much more robustness. You need to bring much more resilience, but also much more adaptability. That demands a certain muscle in many organizations, which is not to be found in a lot of different places. So we really need to consider how we actually come from point A to B and really transform and take on all those new challenges. For that, we don't have a silver lining, but we believe we invited some pretty good people to give their shot on how they believe that transformation can occur. These are doing the four speakers that we have today are going to have each a different angle to it or a different lens. The first, we invite Keith Svensson from MERSC to really talk about the core of transformation. Then we're going to go to Peter Marshall from Dawn to talk really about the digitalization and the impact of the supply chain and digital supply chain in this context. Then we go to sustainability with Shiva, an important topic, or I would say a really crucial topic for us today. And then finally, it's really also important to talk about adaptability. Tim Harford will come up with us with a completely different angle in how to look at that. Great. Now, I think one thing we also asked our speakers, Susan, is that they come up with some piece of advice that they really can use, all your users can use Monday morning. So basically, we asked them actually for three different advices. The first one is the one that you can use Monday morning. The second one, maybe a little bit more long term, where you need to be implementing until end of the year. And third, something just to think about, put in your management team agenda and actually just reflect what does that mean for your own business. So hopefully, we've gotten you excited about the cases that are coming up and the topics. Just to give you a very quick run through the program, I don't want to go into details of every single session, but I do want to highlight that, as Pedro already mentioned, we've invited three cases to talk about their journey of future proving their operations. And then last but not least, we have a keynote speaker that is going to talk about the general topic of adaptability and how to really become, have that be a muscle within your organizations that you continuously train. We will have two breaks, so don't worry. If you need to, you know, grab a coffee or get some water, we'll make sure that you have time for that. And we also are using a platform that is actually fit for interaction and engagement. As you might have already noticed on your right hand side of the screen here, you have different functionalities and we want to make use of that. So please, if you have any questions or comments or you want to chat with other participants, then use the chat in the lower right hand function of your screen. We will also be contributing and distributing handouts throughout the sessions that you can immediately download. And those will appear on the right hand side as well. And last but not least, we also have the ability to ask questions to our speakers. And we would really encourage you throughout the time that they talk to think about questions that you have to them and post them in the top right hand corner where it says questions to speakers. There is one last interactive element, and that is the poll. And we actually want to try that out with you right now. Yeah. And for that, I think we're going to start quite easy with a really simple question, which is in your screens right now. What is your biggest challenge right now within operations? Or some might say, what keeps you up at night? We pose a couple of options for you. Is it something around transparency? Is it something around digitalization? Sustainability? Resilience and robustness? Or maybe your ability to adapt, take decisions fast? And finally, something around developing your human capital or your human capabilities. Yes. Right? So please go ahead and let's hear what you have to say about that. Yeah. And while we're waiting for your results to come in, I think we actually, you know, you and I talked about this. I mean, so you're working within operations, supply chain, manufacturing, with all of the clients that you have. And so I'm curious, what would you say if this poll was put in front of you today? I must admit, Susan, that I'm a bit biased, okay? Because I'm really thinking about, okay, what is actually feeling to my day and what is the impact that we'll have in the next couple of years? So for me, it's really about digitalization. But not, you know, the software or the hardware stuff and all the solutions. I think any kind of Google search, you will find everything in there. But what really keeps me up at night is the fact that we have all these sorts of technologies, but we still lack these really big transformations or the effect that they will have in our everyday lives. Or the people who will be working with those digital solutions. Who will they be? Yes. How do they look like? I mean, I'm thinking about my kids, right? Exactly. Like, which impact would they have in their own lives? Yeah. Well, so let's have a look. I think we have some results coming in. So let's see what you have said is the most important challenge right now. What keeps them up at night? I'm very curious. Fantastic. So first place, we have agility or rapid decision making. Sorry, your ability to adapt. In second place, we have something around digitalization. So I'm glad I'm not that far off. Maybe you biased them into voting. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then digitalization, development, human capital and sustainability right after. Well, thank you very much for that input. Yeah. And, you know, your challenge of adaptability is actually one that we, of course, are going to address today in this session. So we have actually invited a keynote speaker to help us explore the topic of adaptability. Unfortunately, he couldn't be with us today live in the studio, but he is sitting live in Oxford right now to join us on this very special occasion to really explore the topic of reacting, adapting and transforming together. He is a podcast host at the BBC. He is also a journalist at the Financial Times. And he has authored several business books that you have probably come across and found really inspiring. Please welcome Tim Harford, who is sitting in his living room, I think, in Oxford, England. Hi, Tim. So good to see you. Hi, it's good to see you as well. I'm actually standing out of respect. Perfect. Yeah. I mean, we really had to be adaptable. I thought the problem would be that maybe I wouldn't be allowed into Denmark. And now we realize the problem is I wouldn't be allowed out of Denmark and back to the UK. So we had to change this plan very, very fast. And this doesn't work? Exactly. That's a great showcase of adapting on the spot. And I think that's also been a reflection for me the past couple of weeks that, you know, I always thought of myself as a quite adaptive person. I've moved to different countries. I have two kids that throw things in the air all the time. But really the complexity of the situation the last couple of weeks have really put me on the spot a couple of times where I felt I'm reaching my limits here. So I am super excited to hear your talk later on in this program about adaptability. Could you maybe share just a few teasers or just let us know? So what's on your mind, Tim, when you think about adaptability? Yeah. Well, you were saying that there comes a point where you feel that you've reached the limit and you can't cope anymore. I think we all find that because we talk a lot about adaptation, adaptability, resilience, agility. And it all sounds great when we're talking about it in abstract. But when you're having to do it, it's hard. And one of the stories that I wanted to discuss later, which completely obsessed me when I first heard about it, was about the entertainment industry. And in particular about a woman called Twyla Tharp, very strange name. But Twyla Tharp is a great choreographer, American choreographer, who absolutely at the height of her career, when she was one of the most respected artists in America, winning every award and every recognition, she decided she'd do something totally different. She reached out to Billy Joel, the pop star, and asked if she could create a Broadway musical based on the work of Billy Joel. She raised millions of dollars. Billy Joel handed over creative control to her, said, look, if you stand in Twyla Tharp's way, you die. And so it was all on her. This was her vision. She was producing. She was doing the choreography. She was helping to arrange the music. She had creative and business control. And then when this project finally opened as a test run, a premiere in Chicago in July 2002, it was a complete disaster. The show was called Moving Out. And the reviewers seemed to think, well, they should move the show out of the theater immediately. They said it was embarrassing and naive and confusing. And it became a joke. And the problem was this musical was going to run for three weeks in Chicago and then very soon afterwards move to New York, to Broadway, where the whole of America was waiting to laugh at this complete embarrassing failure. So, yeah, sometimes you reach your limits. And what really fascinates me about that story is I think about, well, what was the challenge that Twyla Tharp faced? And how could she adapt? How could she learn from her own mistakes? And is there anything that the rest of us can learn from what she did? So that's one of the stories I'll be talking about later. And now you're going to leave us hanging, Tim, just to create a little bit of excitement. But I think that's great. I can't wait to hear the rest of the story and how it links to the topic of adaptability and what we can learn from Tyler. Thanks so much for sharing. And I can't wait to see you back, Tim, later in the studio. So now we would like to talk about our first case, which is about transformation. And I think, you know, there's a metaphor within transformation that is called turning the ship around. And when you think of this metaphor, there's probably no better metaphor to introduce our next and first case study. Please welcome Keith Swenson and learn a little bit more about his role and the company that he is leading within operations. Good morning. Good morning, everybody. How can you hear me in Roskilde? Hi, Keith. We can hear you fine. Okay, that's good. We had some technical challenges in these COVID times. So let's see if I come through loud and clear. We can hear you and you're right on screen. So we're ready for you, Keith. Fantastic. So first of all, good morning. And I'm very happy to be here today. And I've really been looking forward to share our experience from transformation here at APM All-in-Mersk and APM Terminals. And more so to learn from the rest of you at this conference on this important topic. I want to share our learnings from a large lean transformation we are going through at the moment, which is a critical part of our strategy. As you saw in the video, I have spent the last couple of decades around the world either being leading or part of the large global transformations. And there's more failures than successes, I'm sorry to report. But changing hearts and minds and getting thousands of people to walk in the same direction is not for the faint of heart, nor is it easy, but it's always very rewarding. So today I wanted to share some of my learnings and perspective on this ever-changing question. How do we succeed with large-scale global transformation? Next slide, please. Even before I get into the details, I want to talk about people, because this is really a story about people. And let me introduce you to Varadzik, who's one of my colleagues in Morocco, in 10 years. He joined us in 2007 as an electrician, and he now manages our machine shop, which takes care of all the cranes you can see there in the background. During the past three years, he's been on a personal transformation. And I think the transformation for me is from being an employee who was paid for his time and labor to now a problem solver, a teacher, and somebody who cares deeply about both improving himself and improving our operations. I spoke with him the other day and asked for permission to use him today. And he said, you know, when I come to work every day, it's really about a couple of things. I want to keep my colleagues safe. I want to serve our customers. And I want to save a little bit of money for the company in doing it with less waste. And then I want to learn every day. And something he's also taken into his personal life. He now also sees a clear link between the business strategy and his daily work. And he's soon to be a lean coach where he will teach both managers and fellow employees alike. And I ask you this question, right? If you have 22,000 people like him in your company, do you think it gets better? But when we do transformations in our companies, it's really about improving performance and making us more successful. And I think the metrics matter. And this time around, there's some numbers that tells me that we in APM Terminals are going in the right direction. More than 8,600 colleagues have been trained in lean and problem solving. That's about 40% of our workforce. Almost 2,100 local Kaisons have been performed. That's about five a day. And it's accelerating, importantly, both in numbers and in quality. We have happier customers with our NPS that has moved up in double-digit numbers. But more importantly, it's gone from negative to positive. And we have seen a plus 40% increase in productivity in our largest terminals. And we have taken our cost at the end of it at $123 million, which is substantial for our business. And our assets are more efficient. But before I go into the learnings, let me take you back to 2017, where APM Terminals had been growing for more than a decade on the back of global trade and on the back of globalization. We had built and bought terminals in more than 58 countries and accumulated over 70 terminals. We ran these ports as a portfolio company because that's the only thing you can do when you grow that fast. And every terminal was managed by a competent leadership team who did this job to the best of their capabilities. However, global trade has been slowing. There was overcapacity after a lot of building. And customers consolidated and changed. And when you put it together, we ended up with lower financial performance. We had endemic issues around safety, customer performance, and low people engagement. But the good news is that this is actually a good business and a good industry. And we thought we had both the capacity and the people to succeed with this. But to do that, we needed to create a common way of bringing our performance up. And we really wanted every brain in the game. There should arrive a poll shortly on your screen. And the question is this. In your experience, what is the most challenging part in transforming people and culture in your organization? I'll just give you a minute to answer that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We created APM Terminal's way of working, which we did on the side of developing and training a lot of our colleagues. In a simple way, in the beginning, we talked about this was five ones. One set of processes, one set of numbers, one way of managing, and one global organization, and one improvement method. This was the best way we could put the people who were closest to our customers and to GEMBA to work together to solve our problems. Toyota has their TPS, Danahoe has their DPS, and APM Terminal's has its business system, which we call Ways of Working. It's a detailed setup and a structure for how to execute the work that we have to do today within a framework. And we say success does not happen by coincidence or chance here. We have a proven way of doing it. And you probably have similar systems and programs. So let me just briefly mention the elements so you can relate to your own world. So for the top-down part, it's from the managers. We call that the operating system. And the components is around standard work. It's about performance management. It's about process design and how we manage these processes. It's about how we educate and train in people and skills. And it's how we do improvement management. So this is hard-coded into the DNA of how we run our mini terminals. And then it's bottom-up. And I think this is important. It's a way to develop the frontline colleagues to become true problem solvers. And here we teach eight basic lean tools. We involve and expect chisons from them. We work a lot on mindset and behavior. And importantly for them, there's a lot of personal development in this. And let me get now to the learnings. And in my opinion, what is most important ingredients for succeeding in transformations like ours. And I will go through them in some detail. So the first one is around discipline. When you commit to change people's behavior and mindset, this is about a change of lifestyle. It's not about deciding on the right diet. It's all about the discipline to follow the diet that you have decided on. This is multi-year. It is multifaceted. And it really matters that in a world of business where fats and budget cycles can change the world fast, that we have the staying power and the discipline to continue. It's about making sure that the customer is visible and present in all of the transformation. There is a natural gravitation towards internal focus in most of these programs. And in this case, we need to look at why we do it in the first place, which is for our customer. And in our case, also for safety. And then it's about a very big commitment to training and education. We need to invest in people and give them mandate to improve. And it's impossible to underinvest here, actually. Our reality is that in many markets, we are dealing with unionized labor. And we have a history of adverse relationships. And we want to change that. But if you are going down that route, you are committing to multi-year, maybe even multi-decades investments in chains of hearts and minds. And this one, as the leader of the program, I think is important. When you have leaders that, after a long time and a lot of conversation, has demonstrated that they don't want to do this, then you have to let them go fast. And you need to fill their jobs quickly so the organization can get on with its journey. I think in large organizations, and this is an area that's becoming more and more clear for every year that goes, incentives matters a lot. And you must make sure that your incentive structure is supporting the strategy and the components of it that you want to achieve. I think in particular for lean programs and standardizations and process-based improvement programs, I think 80-20 is a very important principle to keep in mind. And for us, it's really about harmonizing and applying principles and concepts rather than being dogmatic and compliant around the exact standard. And the last point, which is one that we continue to fail on, and at least I do personally, it's around communication, communication, communication. When you have decided to take on the change of hearts and minds, you commit to a very large ongoing communication program. I will wrap up with my three top personal learnings, which I hope you will find interesting. A new direction is really around transforming people's way of thinking. This is hard and it takes time. It's also messy. And we are saying either you are leading it, learning it, or leaving us. We designed the Frontline Academy to teach, to co-create, to involve, to iterate. And it's really a question of getting as many brains in the game as possible and embrace the ambiguity that comes with it. This is a significant personal development. And I believe that it can create win-win, which will eventually add that rocket fuel to your transformation. At the medium and tactical level, this is really around when you are deciding to go in a direction where you haven't been before. I think it's both hubris and naive to think that you can do this alone. You need to partner with people and companies who have been where you are going and who can translate principles into your business context. For us, we have done that with many companies, both through consultancy to help for building the operating system, to visit to other companies who have shared their experiences very openly, to teaching, or not teaching, from partnering with companies like Toyota to work on specific terminals and application of programs. There is a lot of insecurities and a lot of vested interests in the middle management layer in particular. And you need help and you need guide stars to help you through that journey. At the long term and my last learning, it's really around role modeling from the senior management. There is no chance that any behavioral program can succeed unless the top wants it and role models it. We are blessed with a CEO who is an advocate and is supported and is thinking about this in the right time frame and the right magnitudes. And this will enable this change to be sustainable and it will enable the results to accelerate in the years to come. But just as a single point of learning, I thought that where we would be after three years was completely naive and it is now five years. So as you go along the journey, it's important that you have leadership and stakeholders that share the vision and that we all agree on where we are going. And then we use the short term results, which luckily are there to boost our confidence and resolve as we go through the journey. And it acts as fuel for the long game. I'll conclude here with a picture showing a small crowd of heroes celebrating another improvement achieved. And I will leave you with the thought that this is about people. And then I thank you for listening to me. Thank you. Great. Thanks a lot, Keith. And throughout your great conversation, basically, we received a lot of questions. And I would like to bounce a couple of them to you and hear about your thoughts. And the first one is actually from Maria saying, how did the transformation, this transformation that you just mentioned, came into play in the times like we are right now? I mean, throughout the last couple of months, we've seen a lot of shocks throughout the world, right? Did that help in any way? Or can you mention a couple of examples where that was important? Yeah, so the last six months has been challenging for all of us. But actually, there's a couple of things where it's helped us. All our work, all our standard work has, we moved it all to teams and we all stopped traveling and we never missed a heartbeat. So that's one very positive learning. Another positive learning was that we have used problem solving extensively to solve both customer problems and operational problems and health problems the last six months. And so far, we have operated every single customer's container and we have kept all our ports operating. And relatively to society at large, very few people have been hurt by COVID in the operation. So I would say that without the operating system and some of these components, I'm not sure how well we would have done, actually. But I've been super impressed. On some of the challenging side, I think GEMBAS, we have now tried with cameras and GoPros and stuff like that. And we moved all our academy learnings online. And I guess the jury is out whether it's as good as what we had before. But at least we are continuing. And I can see that we have good feedback on it. So I hope we will see. Thanks. And moving to something a bit different. We had something from Fabian. Fabian, what has been the most important factor for you in order to create motivation throughout this journey? Because you mentioned this takes some time, right? So how do you keep people motivated along the way? I think the number one learning is this bottom-up approach where we actually start by telling people, what do you want to work on? How can I help you? And how can I make you more successful? I mean, I have been the amount of personal stories where people are transforming their lives, where people are, you know, you have grown-up stevedores with tears in their eyes and saying, I worked here for 25 years and nobody has ever asked me for my opinion. I think the secret sauce here is really the involvement of all our colleagues and really meeting people at eye level and taking them seriously and asking for them to contribute and help. Okay. Great. Another one then. Now, what time did it take for the productivity to increase to the levels that you mentioned, more or less? You might have mentioned a couple of things, but I guess it didn't happen, you know, from zero to 40. It took some time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say it took about a year before there was some concrete things to show. And I think a lot of the early results on productivity, for instance, really came down to standard work and performance management, where all the improvement tools and lean tools are only starting to kick in now, where we are looking at flow and how we can level the various parts of the system. And so, but nevertheless, productivity came up and we have much more to bring in the years to come. Great. Thank you. Now, a bit on the communication part. Christian asks, what has been your preferred channel of communication? I mean, reaching so many people requires easy access to communication and information, and there must be some kind of strategy there. Yeah, I think what we already knew, that email is not a great media for that. We didn't do particular well, actually. But what we gravitated to, and which I can see works a lot better, is really the social media challenge, both on Yammer, which is the Microsoft product, but a lot of WhatsApp groups, where colleagues are actually celebrating and sharing their successes among their peer groups. And as the organizational experts tell us, I mean, praise from peers are much more important than from the system. And I see that happening. So, videos and social media is what works best for us at this particular moment. Thank you very much. And now we have really not that much time. So, just one take. What would happen if you leave the company right now? Would the results be still there? I am confident that they will continue and do even better. And I think this is a good question to think about when we lead transformations. How do we not become the transformation? But how do we leave something behind that is actually sustainable? Fantastic. Thank you very much, Kip, for joining us. Now we go to a short break and we'll come back in five minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome back from the break. I hope you enjoyed this first case. I certainly thought that Keith had some interesting points about the involvement of people and the co-creation on the bottom of the organization to really kick this transformation off and create momentum and sustain it. Our theme for today is how to prove your operations. And we would be kidding ourselves not to talk about digitalization. This speaker has a thing or two to share about digitalization and why it's not just about technology, but it's also about humans. Let's have a quick look at Peter Marshall. Thank you. Great. Great. Welcome, everybody, from the break. And welcome, you, Peter. And thank you for joining us. Thanks. Great to be here. Fantastic. So, we're going to be doing a format here. It's a Q&A. We're going to use a couple of minutes together. And I would just start with the first question, which is a bit more high level. So, why is digitalization important to down? And what is the impact specifically within supply chain? Thanks. Yeah. Perhaps the best way to answer that is to tell you that back in 2017, our CEO, Jim Fittling, challenged us to become more Amazon-like, which is perhaps a strange thing for a 120-year-old manufacturing organization. But what he was really getting at was the fact that, as consumers, we've become very comfortable going online, ordering things. And if we want, we can even trace that package on its way to us and even divert it at the last minute to a different destination. And his challenge to us was, why can't you do that in our supply chain operations at Dow? Why don't we know exactly where products are? Why is it so difficult for our customers to do business? So, quite clearly, a big challenge to have everything in place to actually make that happen behind the scenes. Fantastic. And is that really about technology or is there other things involved into that? Oh, it's really a lot of things. It really comes down to having end-to-end processes that work. I mean, if you basically use technology without getting that part right, you're basically speeding up the garbage in, garbage out process, which you don't want, obviously. Yeah. And it's also clearly about the people and helping them along the way. Okay. Fantastic. Now, we established, of course, it's an important topic, right? And you've been in that journey for a while now. But, you know, I think there are a lot of people out there that are thinking, where do I start or how do I prioritize the things that I started with all these pilots going around, all this technology? So, my question is, how do you decide which digitalization initiative is the right one for you? And how does the decision process look like? Maybe two questions. Maybe two questions. It's a great question because, obviously, there's a myriad of technologies out there. And, of course, all that glitters is not gold. And it's not really about the technology. You really have to be thinking about, well, what does the technology actually achieve for you? And that's really the key point here is that you have to have some sort of framework to help you prioritize. And the key starting point there is making sure that you're really connecting to the business priorities, the overall objectives. And that should be the starting point to help you decide what technology is appropriate. And really thinking the whole time, what is the technology going to achieve for you? And how does the decision process look like for that? Because, I mean, one thing is, you know, if you have a clear cost-cutting agenda or if you have a clear, you know, we need to be more flexible and so on. How does that play out? When did technology come into the picture on that discussion? Am I not sure if I'm being clear? I think so. I think the key point is having an overarching framework around this, making sure that both from senior leadership perspective, there's clear objectives that are set. But somehow making sure that you're still engaging with people right through the organization, because it is such a fast-moving world. And actually, you know, just listening to young people that have joined your organization and their expectations and their experience, you know, typically they're the best people to tell me how to use my iPhone. They're also the best people to actually tell me about some of the things that are out there in the digital world. And just building a bit on that, because it's not necessarily that we find, you know, a lot of digital natives within DAO or within MASS or within any other company that we mentioned out there. So did you work with any partners or did you have any kind of partnership or ecosystem of companies that you work together with? Or was that something that was relevant for you? Yeah, sure. That's pretty key. Actually, change for a company like DAO that over, I guess, over history has maybe a tendency to do things on its own, be a little bit secretive about stuff and nervy about collaboration. But it's become quite clear that in this modern world, and particularly in the digital world, collaboration is actually key. And you really need to work with different partners and find different ways to do proof of concepts and to try things out that probably 10 years ago would have been a real challenge for us from a kind of cultural perspective. And is that done centrally or is this mostly the central in the different? Because I mean, we just saw 109 manufacturing sites and present all over the globe. How do you actually coordinate all this big machine? You know, it's a good question. I wonder sometimes myself. I guess the key thing is that to put the right structures in place, like I mentioned, you know, we have an executive steering team around a digitalization program. Only for that, then? Only for that, something we call North Star, and it's actually led by our CIO and our supply chain VP. But when that kind of stretches out into the regions, into the function. So within each function, you have people leading digitalization. And within the different regions, you know, getting into the geographies, then there are people engaged in various programs. And that's really important that, you know, it's not just high level. It's actually taking into account the fact that, you know, things in Europe are different from the US and so on. So in practical terms, that means that you might choose a certain technology that might be rolled out in a site somewhere in the US or in France or in Italy. Right. And that might be something completely different in another site, because you thought that was what the technology could bring or how does that work? Typically, our starting point is to try and use the same technology globally. That makes sense. But the reality, particularly if you talk about the logistics world, things are different on the different continents. And you have to adapt to that. So there are some things that can be implemented globally. And obviously, that's a great outcome. But if not, then you have to be prepared to be a little bit flexible. Now shifting a bit from that to think a little bit more on the people side of your organization, because I think it's no secret that technology might threaten a couple of people. They might think that, you know, I'm not going to have a job or something and the advice. But there is also a really good side of it as well. How did people feel about that? And the implementations that you have until now? What was your experience? Right. Yeah. For sure, people do feel threatened by any change and particularly with digitalization. I mean, you just need to mention artificial intelligence and people immediately go to science fiction and think the robots are coming and they'll take my job. They'll take my job. But seriously, really, the key thing is to, well, first of all, to connect to what I was talking about in terms of the customer experience. That also translates to a lot of frustration today in terms of our organization. You know, imagine being a customer service rep, asked the basic question by a customer, like, when is my product going to arrive? And not being able to answer that real time, having to go away and make numerous phone calls. So actually tapping into that frustration, helping people understand that actually this is a good thing. We're going to take away a lot of the hassle out of daily life for them. Yeah. That's a great thing. I guess the other part to this is just making sure that people are involved as you implement new technology. And then actually just a bit on that, on the evolving capabilities and so on. Do you have centers of excellence for certain types of technologies or do you do that, you know, outside in, hiring? How do you treat that? When do you decide in other questions of what should be, you know, in house and what should be outside? Something that you should buy. Right. Yeah. Well, actually a couple of years back, we did set up three centers of excellence for digital activities, the digital marketing, digital operations and a digital order fulfillment center. And say in the fulfillment center, they're working, they're partnering with universities. They're working with different suppliers and trying out doing proof of concept type activities, testing out technology and then trying to figure out, you know, out of that huge choice that's out there, what makes sense and what should we try and roll out broadly across the company. Throughout your governance that you just mentioned before. Yes. Yes. Okay. That sounds fantastic. Now, when we all talk about now that, you know, it's great digitalization and it's not that easy to actually make it happen. So what's some of the main challenges you faced or any mistakes you made along the way? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, well, there are numerous challenges. I mean, I could talk about the basic work processes and boring stuff like master data. You know, if you don't have those things under control. I don't think those are boring at all. Just between us and you. Well, yeah. We're probably the only ones. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But really one of the key challenges for a company like Dow, you know, in the intro you saw how many manufacturing sites we have and we're very global, is really looking at the number of partnerships. And I think that there's a slide coming up that it's kind of misleading actually. I think in the title of the slide it says complex supply chains. Yeah. I look at that and I think that's the most simple supply chain ever. I mean, if you only had five raw material suppliers and six channels to market, that life would be easy. You know, we have a hundred plus transport partners in Europe alone. And so really when you talk about connecting things up, having real time information, you just can't go down the path of doing one to one connections or going to your suppliers portals. You have to find some platforms, some ways to connect in a smarter sense. So you get the information you need real time. And maybe maybe that's a good opening because I'm quite curious to know what are the actual solutions out there. Right. And I think many people at home also are thinking about that. So when we talk about the digitalization, AI or, you know, A4.0, what are some good examples that you might mention to us here today around how you integrate your supply chain and operational setup or the actual stuff? Okay. Yeah. We could talk for hours. There's so many. We have plenty of hours. The people at home don't need to go to the toilet and all that. One example, which ties into what I was saying about knowing where product is. You know, GPS devices are pretty commonplace these days. You think about Internet of Things. So one example I'd like to talk about is what we term smart containers, which are used to transport chemicals around. And obviously these have GPS devices. These days they can also monitor other things such as temperature and pressure, which is important for us. Some of our products will freeze if they get too cold or react if they get too hot. And so having real time information on that type of material as it's transiting, say, across Europe is really critical. But having the technology, having the device and that connected to the transport company is one thing. The other is, well, how do you get that real time in front of the customer service or the customer directly online? And that's where you need some sort of platform. And that's the smarter piece of this, that it's not just about the device on the trucks. It's how that connects in through. And going back to the previous topic about how many connections that we have to make. Yeah. The key challenge for us was finding a platform partner that could connect up our different transport companies with ourselves. So we could connect into our system to give that real time visibility. And that's what we're aiming to do across each of the modes of transport. And that's the IoT platform. Yes, exactly. Okay. But, you know, I can't avoid keep thinking that we have an overload of information already today. Everywhere. It's on your phone, it's on your iPad, it's just here in the studio. You can see how many devices we have. How do you make sure that the people that now get that information, that they use also that information to take different decisions or to be faster to react or give a better customer service? Because one thing is that now I can see which containers are coming right on time or a bit delayed. How do I make sure that I add some value to that either through a different service or that the people understand that they can use that for something else? What I mean is more on the analytics also part, using that information. Right. Yes. Any thoughts on that? That's, well, one key thing is that as you roll out technology is getting people involved that are actually on the front line, that understand today's work processes and how things work, how things don't work, and getting them involved to fine tune the product, the technology that you've bought, so you're implementing, and make sure that it's really working and fine tune what's going on. And fine tune that so that you really, you're not just talking about the technology, you're talking about the process. And along the way, you're perhaps doing some proof of concept stuff with your customers. Like, do they want to get a message every five minutes on their phone about where their product is? Probably not. How would they like to receive information from us? Okay. So you have some kind of process that you follow along that, right? So is that then the technology or the process that are the main driver in here? I think the process is the key dimension here that all too often we get, you know, kind of carried away with the cool technology and actually forget about the underlying principles really. Yeah. And I think that just to follow on that, just a last question, you mentioned a couple of the IoT devices. There is also something around machine learning, right? Right. And how does that play out for you? Where do you use that? Mm-hmm. That's, well, first of all, actually in connection with what I was talking about with the IoT device. A good example there is, you know, those devices and that platform enables us to track where product is. But an extra evolution of that is actually extracting that data and using that for a variety of purposes. I mean, for example, you can see if, you know, every day your truck gets stuck on the Copenhagen ring, then maybe you want to do something about the scheduling or whatever. But also that you can, you know, our customers don't want to know where's the truck. They want to know when it's going to arrive. And that's the sort of thing that with machine learning, building that into such a platform, you can actually create really useful information out of data. So that's one example. I think there are many others in the basic processes where, you know, you can take away a lot of the typing that goes on every day just to enter an order and do things like that. And do things like that smarter. Absolutely. I know. I just, I need to come back a bit on the people side because I think that many of us and when we're talking about the current pace where things are changing, the technologies that are coming up. How do you make sure that your organization also follows that kind of evolution? How do you make sure that the people are up to date with the new stuff that is coming up and that you're now is not, you know, lacking behind or waiting for the next thing to blow up? Yes, it's a, that is a real challenge. Of course, it's, people are different. People like myself that have worked for a long time may be more challenged with some of the technology. And I guess this actually is where it taps in for us to our drive around diversity and inclusion and having a workforce that, where you can bring together, for example, older experienced employees with younger guys that are, you know, the key guys on the technology and mix things up a bit. Okay. And help the, the young guys learn about the, you know, the real world processes out there that we're running and the, the older guys like me understand how my iPhone works. But that is great. I actually, I think, you know, in the last couple of months, there is no secret that there would be a lot of shocks around. And I guess you also were affected by that. Did any of the things that you have done here that you mentioned, did they help? Did they support you being more agile, more able to adapt to any kind of situation? Yes, there's definitely some results from this real time visibility program that we have in terms of, in the early days of when, when Europe shut down, for example, even within the Schengen region, there were issues at borders, which we're just not used to, and, and hold ups and stuff. And actually just, you know, the basics of knowing where things were helped us a lot with this. But I think just in general, we, we actually came through that period remarkably well with the help of our service providers, people like Maersk and others that actually kept goods moving. It's quite amazing, actually, even back in March and April, when you and I couldn't travel across Europe, we managed to keep product moving. Really, the issue was around what our customers were doing and whether the demand was still there. Okay, that is fantastic. Thank you. Now, I think that before we wrap this up, we have a poll as well to, to understand how, how the people that are listening to us are thinking. And for that, the main question is, where do you expect to see the primary benefit of digitalization? And then there are a couple of options in terms of either improved customer service, reduction of cost, new business models and channels to market, or improved employee satisfaction. And we're going to leave them with that. And maybe you have some takeaways for us. Yes, I'd gladly share a few takeaways as we finish. Really, the first point is next week, perhaps, or as soon as possible, visit the frontline operations, go out and talk to the people in customer service, go to your warehouses, go and see how Amazon-like you are, and see how well maybe the technologies you have in place are working, and use that, like talk to the people on the frontline and learn from that. And then the second point, and this is maybe more a sort of medium term area. I was talking before about collaboration and perhaps working with your supplier base on some proof of concepts. One example at Dow, we worked together with IBM and Maersk on a proof of concept around blockchain, to use blockchain to try and streamline the numerous documents that are involved in international shipping. And we worked together on that. And then finally, the last point I'd like to make is really going back to what I mentioned before. At Dow, we call it North Star. But whatever you do, you really need to have a framework around this, and you need to make sure that executives are leading the program. And that's important because this is going to be a long journey. And of course, it requires resources, and you're going to have to prioritize and make good decisions about where to invest, which technologies to go for, etc. So, with that... Join me here. Yes, excellent. Hi. So, thank you very much for that interesting conversation. And please, to all the audience members, if you have any questions for Peter, we do have some time to get some questions answered that maybe you haven't been able to answer. to get across. I have already gotten quite a few here. And I can already promise you, they're all starting with a how. It's all about how do we do this. But I do want to start with a question before we look at the poll results. We've talked a lot about the challenges. You know, so what didn't work? What has been challenging? But there must have also been something exciting about this. And I'm thinking for you, as a, you know, as a leader in this space, and really, like, being deeply immersed in this digitalization journey. What has been an exciting moment for you, where you look back now and you think, this was great? Right. Yeah, that's a great point. And, you know, really simple things like the first time that we've given customers access to things like our real-time visibility platform, and the feedback that you get. Simple things like that. Simple things like some of the messaging that we got, say, during the COVID period when life was so difficult for everyone. And they were just very delighted with what we were still managing to achieve despite the challenges. Yeah. Great. So, some challenges, hopefully a lot of excitement, and hopefully a lot of benefits. Absolutely. And we've asked the audience, so, you know, what are the benefits that we can see? And we want to have a quick look at that poll. The poll says that 30% see the primary benefit as improved customer experience. 39% say it's increased productivity. 30% say it's about new business models and channels to market. And only 1% says the primary benefit is about improved employee satisfaction. So, I think we have, you know, a triad, so to say, of benefits that the audience can relate to. But I'd love to hear from you, why is improved employee satisfaction actually a great benefit of a digitalization strategy? Right. Yeah, it's kind of surprising. Right. But, well, maybe not. It really, to me, it's something that will follow. I think I made the examples before. If you talk about customer service and improving things for your customer, you're also improving a lot of things for your frontline organization. By using machine learning to take away repetitive, boring tasks and giving people more analytical tools that they can do higher value work, analyze and find opportunities to work on improvements. Rather than grinding through the same boring stuff again and again. Those things, you know, taking away some of today's hassles is bound to improve employee satisfaction. I think it's something that will follow regardless of what your main thrust will be. Yes. So, please also keep this in mind when you're working on digitalization strategy that it's actually going to have a ripple effect in your organization. We've gotten some great questions and I told you there are a lot about how do we do this. And I'd like to start with a question from Michael. So, thanks, Michael, for asking this question. How long sighted are your views when you invest in digitalization technology and how often would you implement changes? So, talking a bit about the timeline. Right. And maybe using some of the examples around this real time logistics visibility. We always typically set a timeline that's too short. We think we're going to achieve this, say, rolling out a global program for a particular mode of transport in two years. And then realizing, well, maybe you can get quite a long way in that time, but it takes longer. And so I think like the fundamental choice around the platforms is kind of set for a reasonable period. It wouldn't make sense to chop and change faster than that. And to some extent, because it's so much about the processes and not the technology, not which software partner you've got, that you could make that switch later on. And it's really not about that. Yes. Yeah. Great. You know, you mentioned these partners. And I think there's a lot of interest around that ecosystem that you're creating, the reaching out into parts that are not within your organization. Right. I think that's a trend. You know, we also heard Keith mentioning before. And Matthias here has the question of how do you integrate these partners in your supply chain? So how did you master that complexity that you mentioned earlier? Right. Yeah. No, that's a good one. It's a pretty bumpy road, actually, that globally we try and standardize as much as possible and roll out the same tools. But there are some great examples, actually, of where a local organization like, for example, our colleagues in India work with a local entrepreneur to actually come up with a way of connecting these GPS devices and give some information that really helped them a lot with numerous things. So somehow finding the right balance of letting people move forward independently, actually, with a solution in that case that was not really leverageable to other areas, but still a great learning experience. Somehow trying to find that right balance of pushing the overall corporate view, but still allowing some sort of local decision making around the specifics. Do you have any advice on how do you actually how did you find that balance? I'm guessing it's a constant give or take and figuring it out. Do you have any personal experience? Well, the people out in the regions, they roll their eyes and say, oh, it's corporate again, not letting us do what we want to do. And, you know, but somehow making sure that when you set up a project to roll out some specific technology, making sure that you do tap into the organization globally. We try to include people right from an early stage in the design so that they can give input on how it's going to be set up and kind of create what we term super users. The people that ultimately will go back to their day jobs, but will be kind of like the leading person in that local group that can actually show their colleagues how their iPhone works. Yeah, exactly. And there's a there's also a great benefit of them actually feeling empowered. The ownership. Yes, yes. It turns from we're doing something to them to getting them involved in making some important change happen. Great. There's a there's a question related to this that comes from Ali. No, Lars, actually. So Lars, thanks again for posing your question. And it has to do with the fact that digitalization and introducing technology into an organization can also lead to alienation. So you talked about involving people, creating super users, but there might also be a few people who are afraid, who are afraid to be replaced, who are afraid that, you know, the robots are taking over. Yes. That kind of fear scenario. How did you kind of proactively tackle that? Or did you perhaps not even address that issue up front? We sent the robots into space. Exactly. Really, it comes down to classic change management. You know, if you look at any change, you're going to have the leaders and the laggards and you have to use all of the tactics that you'd use in any change environment to deal with that. And like give people every chance to change, keep relating it back to what's in it for them. Yeah. Getting down to this new technology should take away this boring stuff and allow you to do your job better and work through those issues in that way. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Well, Peter, this has been really insightful and I hope, you know, audience found this insightful as well. Feel free to leave comments for Peter and we can relay them to you. Thanks so much for being with us and coming here on this great occasion. You're welcome. Thanks. We are now going to go to our next case. And it's just as exciting as the story Peter was just telling. I think 90% of you have set foot in the workplace of our next speaker. You might not have been in her exact location, but probably in one of the many IKEA's around the world. The magnitude of operations and supply chain in this Swedish brand is pretty hard to grasp if you think about it. And Shiva Rostam has the meaningful and very important job to create a climate positive organization. What that has to do with meatballs, we're going to find out after a very short video to introduce Shiva. Thank you. Thank you so much, Susan, for the introduction and thank you for having me. 77 years ago, IKEA was founded with a clear vision. To create a better everyday life for the many people. And that vision influences everything we do. We know that a better everyday life includes a healthier and more sustainable lifestyle. And we also know that we need to create this for the many people today without compromising with the needs of our future generations. And this vision is more important than ever now when society is facing huge challenges. Our world is rapidly changing. Our climate is changing faster than predicted. We have already increased the average global temperature to one degree Celsius. And limiting the worst effects of climate change depends on limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. However, if we continue to do business as usual, the CO2 budget for the coming 100 years will be depleted in only 12. And according to IPCC, we need to peak emissions this year and reduce them in half every decade until 2050. While also removing some of the carbon that we have already emitted to the atmosphere. So we really need to act now. Now some of you might ask, why is it so important to aim for 1.5 degrees? And could we aim for 2 degrees instead? Well, the simple answer is no. One of many examples, the extreme heat waves and wildfires that we are seeing already in many parts of the world will just increase. And the difference between 1.5 degrees and 2 degree world is 700 million people or 2 billion people exposed for extreme heat waves every 20 years. And this is just one of many examples. And it's not only people being affected, but business as well. Just imagine the increased risks and costs with operating in an unpredicted world like this. At IKEA, we source 1% of all commercial wood in the world and 1% of the cotton. Thus, extreme heat waves will impact our suppliers, customers and hit the resources that are business critical for us. So simply put, climate change is one of our most important challenges. And two other challenges that we have identified at IKEA is unsustainable consumption and inequality. But we have all heard the saying with big challenges comes big opportunities. And at IKEA, we have decided to stay optimistic about the future. To address the three challenges, climate change, unsustainable consumption and inequality, we have the IKEA sustainability strategy called People, Planet Positive, which outlines how we can have a positive impact on both people and planet throughout our value chain. And it's divided into three focus areas. The first one, enabling healthy and sustainable living. And it's really that we want to create a health, sustainable living for all of our customers within the boundaries of the planet. Second focus area, circular and climate positive. We are fully committed to tackling climate change. And one of our biggest opportunities is to transform into a circular business. And the third focus area, fair and equal, is about we want to have a positive impact on all of our stakeholders throughout our value chain. And the topic of today is becoming climate positive. And that's what I'm mainly working on. So let's deep dive into the second focus area. We have committed to become climate positive by 2030. And for us, it means reducing more greenhouse gas emissions than our value chain means while still growing our business. In short, it's about reducing our emissions with 50% while also contributing to further reduction in society by going beyond IKEA. And we recognize that our responsibility covers the entire life cycle of our product. And our approach to become climate positive also reflects this. So how do we intend to get there? Well, this graph illustrates just that. We have 2016 as our baseline year. The red line you see is the impact IKEA would have if we continue to release emissions in line with the growth. That's not where we want to end up. First of all, we need to drastically reduce our emissions, which is illustrated by the yellow area. And I will deep dive further into that yellow area in my presentation. So I will leave it for now. The light green area is about the materials we use and how we use them. It's about improving forest and agriculture management practices to store carbon in the forest or in the soil. And also by using renewable materials, we can contribute carbon storage in the products itself. The dark green area shows additional reduction we can have in society by going beyond IKEA. So we are committed to address a larger footprint than our own by collaborating with, for example, our suppliers and customers to reduce their emissions as well. And to just make this concrete, for example, when we are working with our suppliers and tackling or working with our suppliers in the transition to renewable energy, we tackle the whole site and not only our manufacturing share, regardless if it's 2% or 92%. And on average, we have 25% manufacturing share. So by collaborating and tackling the whole site, we can have four times bigger reduction in production. And these three areas combined will take us below the zero line and make us become climate positive. So what you are seeing now on the screen is the footprint, IKEA footprint throughout our value chain from sourcing of material to manufacturing and production. How our products are used in our customers' home as well as what happens in the end of their life. And our footprint is approximately 25 million tons CO2 equivalents. That number doesn't really say much, not even for me who's working with this topic. But just to put it in relation, it's just as much as 0.1% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions, or just as much as half of Sweden's yearly climate footprint. So we have a big impact and we also have a big responsibility. Something that many things have a big footprint, especially if you are a global operating company, is transport. In our case is only 5% of our footprint. While the largest footprint area is materials that are used when producing IKEA products. For example, a billy bookshelf. And the second largest, which might be a bit shocking, is the energy and electricity and fuels used at our customers' home. When they are using IKEA products, for example, light bulb or appliance. So this really shows the importance of taking a full value chain approach, meaning up and downstream. And this is the footprint that we need to cut in half while growing our business. And last year we saw a break in the trend when we managed to reduce our climate footprint with 4.3% while the IKEA retail sale grew with 6.5%. Our footprint is now the same as it was back in 2016, while our business has grown with 13%. So hopefully this is the first sign of a trend to decouple growth from emissions. And the two main chain drivers for this achievement was increasingly amount of renewable electricity at our suppliers and improvement in energy efficiency in our lighting and appliance range. But this is just a small step. We have so much to do. And there are three key things that will drastically contribute to reduction of our emissions. First of all, enabling sustainable consumption and transforming into a circular business. Secondly, it's to source and use sustainable materials and food ingredients. And thirdly, it's about going over to 100% renewable energy across our value chain. And now I will deep dive into each of them. We need to transform ourselves and we need to transform our ways of working. Today, the IKEA business model is linear, take, make, sell. The IKEA ambition for 2030 is to become a circular business model where all products from the very beginning are designed to be reused, refurbished, remanufactured and eventually recycled, generating as little waste as possible. And our goal is to have a range with full circular capabilities, but also produced with renewable and recycled materials. And transforming into a circular business impacts every aspect of the IKEA model from how we source materials, what products and services we develop, and also where and how we meet the customers and so on. In foreign markets, we are testing furniture as a service, like a leasing model. And we have already started testing refurbishment of some of our bigger products, such as sofas. And some of you might already have heard it, but this year we started or opened up our first second hand store in Eskilstuna, Sweden. And hopefully we will see more of them in the future. So not a lot of people know this, but IKEA is one of the world's largest food providers. Last year, 680 million of people experienced IKEA food offer either in our stores or bistros. And we want to create a range that is both affordable, healthy and sustainable, both good for people and planet. And during the two last years, we have introduced some new products. First, that was our Veggie Dog launched in 2018. First, the first year we sold approximately 10 million of those. And this year in August, we launched Huvudroll, a plant ball for meat lovers. It has the same texture and taste, but not meat. And before telling you the difference in climate footprint, I would like you to guess it. So how many plant balls can you eat while having the same footprint as one traditional meatball? You can write your answer in the chat box. I can read the question again. How many plant balls can you eat while having the same footprint as one traditional meatball? And the right answer is 25. You can eat 25 plant balls and you would have the same climate impact as one traditional meatball. And that for me, just mind blowing. But the IKEA, the famous IKEA meatball is one of our big sellers. We sell approximately six, sorry, 1 billion of them each year. And just imagine the impact it would have if we converted those 1 billion to plant balls instead. Big impact. And to be able to limit global warming, we need to stop using fossil fuels. At IKEA, we have decided to phase out coal and oil by 2025 and used 100% renewable energy across our value chain by 2030. But it's not really about the targets, rather how to turn the targets into concrete action. And one thing that we are doing with our suppliers is creating roadmaps or pathways to be able to meet the target. So we know what energy types they are using and their different size, how much and for what purpose. So we sit down together, and I really pronounce the together word, and identify improvements and create a portfolio of actions, both short term and long term, for them to be able to meet the targets. And we also recently launched a fund of 100 million euros to speed up the transition towards renewable energy at our suppliers. Making sustainability affordable. Looking at the sustainable development model, something is truly sustainable when the environmental, social and economic dimensions are aligned. Something is not sustainable when it's good from an environmental and social perspective, but extremely expensive. So the economic dimension is a key factor when we talk about sustainability at IKEA. Because we truly believe that sustainable living shouldn't be a luxury for the few, but should instead be normalized. And we are known for being a low price company. And the low price is how we will enable healthy and sustainable living for the many. The many being the key. Because the more people we reach, the bigger impact we can have. And just to summarize everything. Climate change is one of our most important challenges and one of our worst crises. But also our biggest opportunity to create a better future. A future that is better for people and better for nature. And the beauty in this is that we are all united under the same targets. Limiting global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. And the business sector has a key role to play in this. And I will now share three takeaways or key advices that all businesses need to do. First of all, set bold and ambitious targets in line with science and allocate required resources. And a key part is to know your footprint across your value chain, meaning both up and downstream when setting the targets. And if you want to create real and lasting change, you must know what is causing the problems in the first place and address them at its core. Secondly, sustainability is not something that you can work with in parallel with your existing models. But it must be integrated into the core of your business. And depending on your circumstances, you might even have to go beyond the integrative approach to a transformative approach. Where sustainability drives new business models, strategies and the services you provide. Thirdly, going beyond your business. Doing more in your network and contributing to further reduction. And also to be able to achieve one and two, you must collaborate with your suppliers, partners, customers, NGOs, competitors. Collaborate across industries and really use your company's network to accelerate change both inside and outside of your company. And use it to find new solutions. Use it to co-invest in already existing solutions. Or use it to inspire others to start their journey. Or use it to inspire them to join yours. And hopefully, I inspired at least some of you. And thank you so much for listening. And I think there is time for some questions now, right, Pedro? Yes. Yes. We have. And actually, I must admit, there came a lot of questions along the way. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'm really looking forward to balance some of them with you. First of all, I got particularly inspired. So I think you have a fan here. Perfect. I think they vary for a couple of different areas. I will start with one of them that got repeated in different formats. But in essence, it's about how do you balance your business goals with your sustainability goals? Because normally in some companies, that might seem like an antagonism where you take sustainability to your business. What is your take on that? How does IKEA do that? I think, I mean, something that I need to make clear here is that we are facing huge challenges. And right now, I mean, prices on climate solutions have decreased drastically. So we are really seeing it as an opportunity to provide more lower price to our customers because, I mean, sustainability is often, or right now actually, is the cheapest option. It hasn't been in the past five years or four years, but it's happening a lot of things. And I think that it just, we see it as a big opportunity and not an obstacle. Okay. Thank you. And actually, when you know, we talked about a lot about the integration between your sustainability into the organization. How do you know when that is the case? How do you verify or how do you acid test that now, yeah, we're fully integrated or are we thinking like that? Yeah, that's a really good question. And I have a metaphor that I use to describe the importance of integrating sustainability into each part of the organization. And for now, I can call it just the spider to starfish. Okay. I haven't come up with a better name. But many organizations intend to have a sustainability team that drives the whole sustainability agenda in the organization and has sporting a little bit here and there. That's the spider, a centralized head with legs in each part of the organization and kill the head of that spider. That was dramatic. But all the work disappears. And that's not how you create real lasting change. Instead, you want to move over to become a starfish. A starfish has vital organs in each arm. Shop off one arm, it grows back again and it doesn't affect the other one. Split it in the middle, you get two starfish. And when your organization becomes like a starfish, then you know that sustainability is fully integrated. And I hope that that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense for me and I hope that it makes sense for you as well. It makes a lot of sense for me and actually I might steal that one and use it at other times. I think it's great. Now, it's clear that IKEA is quite far on that sustainability agenda and some of our listeners might not be as far as you are. Then, and that also might apply to some of your suppliers. So the question came from Pia on how do you ensure that your suppliers also buy into the sustainability agenda? Have you done anything different than before? Do you set different KPIs or what levers do you use for that? And I know you mentioned a bit of that, but I think if... Yes, of course. I mean, just taking it from an IKEA perspective, we have really good relationship with our suppliers on average 12 year. And just as I mentioned in my presentation, we know we have the data, so we know what is affecting their footprint. And we are really sitting down together to identify improvements and create the actions needed. And all of our suppliers, and I think all companies out there really want to do good, but might lack the expertise or financial muscles to do so. So, and that's where we step in and support our suppliers the most to come with expertise. Or if it comes to the case that they would need financing, that can also be an option. So I think, and we do have KPIs, of course, that we follow up both internally, but also externally as well. Okay. You know, I think that... And Vu, a massive question here saying, you know, a lot of those figures... Sorry. Oh, sorry. But I think that maybe it would be good to add. I mean, not all companies are as big as IKEA. Mm-hm. And there are smaller companies that maybe haven't had the same collaboration over so many years. And I think one thing that smaller companies can do is, I mean, first of all, the three key things that I stated. But when it comes to suppliers, it's when finding new suppliers to have it part of your contract or have it part of your code of conduct, or at least having the dialogue to see what plans does the supplier have to be able to contribute in a positive way and start the dialogue from there. And if you are too small to move a supplier, partner up with other companies that are also using the same to be able to create some leverage. I mean, we are a small, small customer in the steel industry, for example. So that's a little bit how we are working. So you also are in that position sometimes. Of course. That's also what you're saying. Exactly. Okay. That is great. So, sorry to interrupt you before, but Envu, she asked, you know, given the trend, the organizational pressure, a lot of cost reduction in the supply chains. Has there been any increase on your inbound supply chain costs while attempting to be climate positive? And if yes, now how do you deal with that? And of course, you don't need to enter exact numbers. But have you seen an increase in your inbound costs or a decrease once you started the whole climate positive agenda? I think the thing is that we have been working with sustainability for many years. And it's quite rooted in our DNA to be as efficient as possible to be able to lower costs. But we have also in many cases being the pioneers. For example, I mean, just the Inca went out and said that we're going to have renewable electricity back in 2010 when it wasn't really the cheapest option. So, of course, that was the case back then. But today, as I mentioned before, many of the solutions are also actually the climate friendly solutions are also the cheaper option in the long term. In many parts of the markets, we are seeing that renewable electricity is cheaper than the fossil alternative. And that's what we are trying to leverage now to be able to drive the low price agenda even more. So that means that you also leverage the maturity of the things along your supply chain to balance out your costs. So there are some parts that are much more mature, you invest on that. But also, you don't become less sustainable. I mean, you're still investing in the other parts, even though they're more expensive. But in the end of the day, they kind of balance each other out. Exactly. Okay. Now, maybe another question also relating to the tradeoffs between, and I know you mentioned tradeoffs. But the question from Jakob is more on how do we evaluate and implement the changes that you want, where sustainability sometimes might also be in competition with a growth of a new store or a strategic must-win battle of somewhere else in the organization. So how do we evaluate them against each other? Because they're quite different things, right? Yeah, it is. And it's a really good question. And to be honest, now on top of my head, I will not deliver a good answer to that question. But something that we have realized, and even more now during the crisis that we are in around COVID, is that this is not a nice thing to have. This is a must-do for us to be able to survive in the future. So, of course, sometimes it will be tradeoffs where it might become a bit more expensive. But I will stop there. I think just to follow up on actually, you just mentioned the adaptation on the whole COVID and what happened. And something that we ask also other speakers, when we're talking about adaptation and agility and ability to answer, I know that those topics might be a bit more far from each other, the sustainability and the other one. But have you seen any impact on, for example, working closer to your suppliers because of your sustainability? You become more agile or have you seen any of that? I mean, agile in form of production. Transparency, rapid decision making, being able to adapt to a new situation. Yeah, but I would say so. Because to be able to work with the sustainability agenda and especially with the climate agenda is that you need to have a science-based approach. So we have, and together with our suppliers, as I mentioned, we collect data, which also becomes much easier for us to identify improvements when it comes to both energy efficiency or decision making. Because then we know which decisions will have a big impact. And then it becomes much easier for different stakeholders to take decision because they know the impact of it. Okay, fantastic. Thank you very much, Jiva. Thank you. I personally, I'm looking forward to try the new meatballs next time I go to IKEA. Super. And thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much. And now we're going for a short break of five minutes and then, oh, I was, you know, it's a bit new, this kind of thing of looking to all the different cameras. Just for you now at home, we're going to come for a break of five minutes and then we're right back with you. Thank you. Thanks, Shia. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome back from the break. We hope you had some time to, you know, stretch your legs and get a coffee or water. I have the easier task than Pedro. I just have one camera in front of me. We need to know, we need to know, we need to move on to the road, we need someone to lead So, Tim, would you mind showing us or telling us a little bit more of what is actually going on with this, at this point in time, incredible failure story. Yeah, so you didn't think it was going to be that easy, did you? I think everyone is going to have to wait just a little bit longer to hear what happened to Twilight Tharp, maybe 17, 18 minutes longer. As you can see, by the way, the sun has come up here in Oxford. So I hope I haven't dazzled you too much. I've been listening to the case studies this morning, and I've been getting more and more hopeful as the morning has gone on, and the sun has got brighter and brighter. So it's been a great morning for me. So I'm going to tell you about Twilight Tharp. I'm going to tell you about how she adapted and the challenges that she overcame. But first, I want to focus on challenges in general, because so often we hear about why it's a good idea to adapt, why it's a good idea to be agile and resilient. But we often make it sound so easy when we talk about it on our PowerPoint slides or in our motivational speeches. But actually, it's hard. It's hard to adapt and adjust. It's hard to recognize maybe you're going in the wrong direction and to change. So I want to just take 15 minutes first to talk about why it's hard, what the obstacles are, and how we can overcome those obstacles. So first, I wanted to give you a little test. I think this is a very, very informative, classic experiment in psychology. It's a test of your perception. So if we could just see the slide with the lines on, this is a, some of you will recognize this experiment. It's very, I think it's very interesting. And it's a very simple question. It is, look at these three lines, A, B, C. And all I want you to do is to tell me, you can fill in using your poles, which of these three lines, A, B or C, is the same length as the line on the right, which we call the reference line. So A, B or C, let's have a look at the lines again. I mean, some people find this hard, but just do your best. The mind works in interesting ways. A, B or C, which is the same length. Okay, just give you a couple of couple more moments. And hopefully we have the results we can show anytime now. Interesting. So 95% of you think that the correct answer is C. And 5% of you are wondering what on earth is happening. So let me talk about what we just did. This experiment was conducted in the 1950s by a psychologist called Solomon Ash. And he did something very similar to what I did, which was to show people lines and to ask them, which was the same length as the reference line. The difference with what Solomon Ash did and what I did is Solomon Ash had all the people in the room and he would go down and say, okay, what do you think is the right answer? What do you think is the right answer? What do you think is the right answer? What about you? What about you? And the correct answer would be B. And yet, as he went down the line, people would say C, C, C, C, C, C. So what's happening? What's happening is this is a trick. All of the people in the line are actors. They've all been told to give the wrong answer. The correct answer is B. You, I'm sure, know the correct answer is B. You're probably all wondering why everybody said C. The answer is, it's a lie. I mean, people will have voted for B. But when Solomon Ash went down the line with everybody saying C, C, C, C, when he finally got to the last person in the line, who was the only person who was actually being experimented on, the only person who wasn't an actor, that person very often would also say C, even though the correct answer was B. And sometimes it's because they changed their minds. They thought, oh, everyone else thinks it's C. I must be wrong. Sometimes it was because people would just decide to lie. They're like, well, I think the answer is B. I don't know what everyone else is doing, but who cares? I'm just going to agree with everybody. So this is a classic study, not of perception, but of conformity. The fact that people try to fit in with what other people around them are saying. And why is this important when we're talking about adapting? Well, when we're talking about adapting, we're talking about a situation where we want people to speak up when something is going wrong, to say there's a different way to do things, to say, oh, there's a problem. Or I know we agreed that this was the right strategy, but maybe we should try this instead. But to do that, you need to be the person in the room who is willing to be different, to be the first person to express a concern or to raise the alarm. And what Solomon Asch's experiment shows is it can be very hard to be that person. In the experiment, the stakes were quite low. It didn't really matter. The correct answer was very clear. Obviously, the right answer is B. And there were no hierarchies. Even then, people were afraid or reluctant to say something different. Think about in a real organization, whether the stakes are much higher, where there are hierarchies, there are people who feel they're not empowered to speak up, and where the real answer can be ambiguous. It's very hard to be the person who raises the alarm at that point, who says there's a real problem. So I focus on the Solomon Asch experiment, because I think that conformity can be a real obstacle to adapting. And will the answer to getting over that obstacle? There are really two ways to do it. One is to try to recruit people who see the world in a different way. So there are many reasons to value diversity, men and women, older people and younger people, people from different countries, different ethnicities, different training, lots of reasons why that is important. But one reason is because if people see the world in a different way, they are more likely to say something's wrong. We need to change. There's a problem. But the second thing you can do is is easier, which is just to have a decision making structure that values disagreement to say when we have our meetings, we're going to insist that people express differences of opinion. So that's the first obstacle, conformity. And I've suggested some ways we can try to get past it. So let me talk about the second obstacle. And the second obstacle is actually all about aeronautical engineering. So we've gone from experiments in vision, we've gone from Broadway, now we're going to talk about planes. In the 1950s, a British industrialist called Henry Cramer put up a large prize for anybody who could find a way to make an aeroplane that was powered only by human flight. That means a very low powered aeroplane, it opens the way to solar powered aeroplanes, for example. So it's a very interesting project, but also a very difficult one. And people tried to solve this problem for nearly 20 years, they really struggled. And part of the issue was, well, it's a hard problem. But part of the issue was, they would build a plane, it would be a very light, very flimsy plane, very fragile. And it would take off, and then there'd be a problem, it would crash. And then they'd have to spend months going back to the drawing board, rebuilding, reconstructing, redesigning. So while they were learning and adapting, it was a slow process, and it was an expensive process. Then in the late 1970s, an American aeronautical engineer called Paul McCready decided he wanted to try to win this prize. And he said that the basic problem is, it's not actually human powered flight. The basic problem is, every time you crash a plane, it takes you months to build a new plane. You can't learn fast enough from your mistakes. So McCready designed an aeroplane that was basically built out of very thin plastic, like cling film, and snapped together aluminium components. And he could make adjustments very, very fast. He would just add a bit of string, or at one point, he attached a cardboard folder to the tail fin with sellotape, just to change the design of this plane. And when the plane crashed, you could rebuild it overnight, make some adjustments. And because the learning cycle was suddenly so fast and so cheap, it crashed the plane every day, rebuild it every day. McCready and his team very quickly figured out a way to win the Kramer prize. Let's show you a picture of this plane. It's called the Gossamer Condor, and it's amazing. And remember, McCready solved this problem in nine months. It had taken 18 years for the rest of the world to try to figure it out. And the lesson there is, when you start thinking about rapidly learning, cheap experiments, getting data and information in as fast as possible, you have a different attitude to failure, and you're able to adapt much more easily. It's not straightforward to do this, because normally when we have a project in mind, we think about success, we think about trying to make sure there is no problem. But McCready said, look, every time I fly this plane, it will crash. I recognise that failure will happen constantly. And so the first problem to solve is how to make the failure cheap and fast so that I can learn inexpensively and quickly. So there's the second obstacle. It takes too long, it costs too much to learn from failure and to adapt. And the solution is to make quick, cheap learning the focus of the organisation. So let's talk about the third obstacle. And the third obstacle, in a way, is the simplest and the most difficult of all. And it's all about how we think. It's all up here. And to understand this obstacle, I want to talk about a game show called Deal or No Deal. Let me show you a picture of the British version of this game show. This man is called Noel Edmonds. He's a very famous television presenter in the UK. I actually travelled to the Deal or No Deal studios to interview him, because that's the kind of quality research you expect, I think. But Deal or No Deal is not a British show. It's an international show. It originally came from the Netherlands, and it's played all over the world. And the reason I'm interested in it is because people are making risky decisions from very high stakes, large amounts of money, and then they're having to react to their previous success or failure. So it's a great laboratory for understanding the way humans make decisions. And this game has been studied by the Nobel Prize winning economist, Richard Thaler, among other people, to understand human decision making. So let me just briefly tell you how the game works, in case you haven't watched it. So the contestant has a box or a suitcase, and in that box there's an amount of money. Most of them are quite small. So it could be one euro, five euro, ten, fifty euro. But there are a few boxes that have a huge amount of money in. So maybe a hundred thousand euros or five hundred thousand euros. And all of these boxes are out in the studio, except there's one that the contestant has in front of him or her. And the way they play is to just point at boxes and go, OK, get rid of that. Get rid of that one. Get rid of that one. And each time the box is opened to reveal what's in it. So if the box has five euros, the audience cheer. They say, oh, that's great. They don't have five euros in your box. You're not going to win five euros. might win something big. But if the contestant points to a box and it's opened and it has 250,000 euros, then suddenly everyone is very downhearted. The audience moan because, oh, you could have had a quarter of a million euros in your box, but you don't. It was over there and it's gone. Now that's all random. But the decision that makes this game interesting is after every few boxes, a character called the banker will phone the contestant and will say, I will pay you to stop. I will pay you 1,000 euros or 10,000 euros or 100,000 euros to give up your box and to walk away from the game. Deal or no deal? So this is the decision that the behavioral economists, the psychologists study. So what did they learn? Well, let me tell you about one particular contestant called Frank in the original Dutch version of the game. Frank had been playing the game. He had five boxes left and one box had 500,000 euros in it. So this is a big deal. This is a big opportunity for Frank because the offer, the value of the game is more than 100,000 euros, right? You've got 500,000 euros somewhere. You've got only five boxes. And the banker phones Frank up and says, I will pay you 75,000 euros to quit. So this is an interesting deal because 75,000 euros is a lot of money and it's worth more than most of the boxes. But there is still one box with 500,000 euros in. So Frank thinks about it. And then Frank says, no deal. And he points to a box. The box is opened. 500,000 euros. 500,000 euros. It's gone. So this is a problem for Frank because the next offer the banker makes is just 2,500 euros. Now, what Frank should be thinking is actually 2,500 euros is okay. I took a risk. It didn't work out. I made a mistake. The money is gone. 2,500 euros is now a good offer. But that's not what Frank was thinking. He couldn't think about the future. He couldn't think about the decision in front of him. He was thinking about the past. He was thinking, I should have done it differently. I should have said, I should have accepted the deal. I should have, I should, I could have had 75,000 euros, 75,000 euros, 75,000 euros. I could have had it. And because he was fixated on the previous decision and the previous prize, he couldn't focus on the fact that the deal was actually pretty good. So he said no deal. And he refused offer after offer. Even when the banker started offering deals that were completely unfair in Frank's favor, Frank turned them down. Finally, he had 10,000 euros or 10 euros. And the banker offered him 6,000 euros to just stop, walk away. And Frank said, no deal. And Frank left the studio with just 10 euros. What interests me about poor Frank is that when you study this game properly, as Richard Thaler and his team of economists have done, you find that Frank's behavior is statistically typical. This is how we behave. When people make a mistake in deal or no deal, where they open a big box and they've lost a lot and the banker's offer starts to fall, people get angry. They won't accept it. They won't think in a rational way. And we see this behavior all around us in professional poker players, for example, in stock market, in the housing market. People focus on the previous prize, what they could have had, and they don't think rationally about what to do next. And so that's the biggest challenge, because I'm saying to you, OK, go out there, experiment, adapt, learn from your mistakes. But it's hard to learn from your mistakes, because you're so easy to be like Frank, to be fixed on what you could have won, what you could have done, to be thinking about the past and not thinking about the decision in front of you and about the future. It's quite easy to reframe, though. All you need to do it, all Frank needs needs to have done is instead of thinking about 75,000 euros, to have said, I walked into this studio with zero. I started playing this game with zero. I've lost nothing. So now I can think about the right decision to make. But it's hard to do that. Look, I've got a couple of minutes left, and I promised that I would talk about what happened to Twyla Tharp. So remember, she's produced this Broadway musical. She's been humiliated in the press. The reviews are terrible. Everyone says it's bad. She has just a few weeks to make small changes to the show before it arrives in New York on Broadway. So what's the first thing she does? She sits down with an old friend who she knows is a very honest person, potentially a very critical person. And they sit there with coffee, croissant, orange juice, and all the newspaper reviews the day after the first show. And she says to her friend, what do you think? And her friend says, you know they're right. You know they're right. It's a hard thing to say when the world is criticizing you. To hear from a friend, yeah, the critics are right. You made a mistake. You've got to fix it. But I think that was a really important first step, because that was the point at which Twyla Tharp stepped away from being like Frank in Deal or No Deal to say, okay, I'm not going to think about the past. I'm going to think about the future. It was the point at which there was like an extra critic in the Solomon Asch experiment saying, hey, the real answer is not C. The real answer is B. See the world clearly. Makes a huge difference. So Twyla Tharp recognized that she had a problem. And then she took a leaf out of Paul McCready's book. Paul McCready, remember, was the aeronautical engineer who focused on very rapid learning. How do we make improvements as quickly as possible? And Twyla Tharp said, look, we've just got weeks to do this. We've got days to make decisions. So she went through all of the reviews, all of the criticisms, and she just turned them into a spreadsheet, like a to-do list. These are all the things I need to fix, all the changes I need to make. And they were difficult changes to make because she was firing people. She was losing the confidence of her crew, getting rid of people who had done nothing wrong, rearranging the music, rearranging the sound, the staging. But when the show finally appeared on Broadway and the critics came to watch it, everybody was astonished. They said, it's amazing. It's a blast. It's in a different league. It's a shimmering portrait of an American generation, said the New York Times. That's a pretty good review. And everybody focused on just how amazing the adaptation had been. One of the critics said, I've seen shows alter between preview and the final performance, but I've never seen any improvement like this. I've never seen anybody adapt so fast. How did this happen? That's a vital question, I think. Because that show went on to be a great success. It ran for years. It won Tony Awards for Twyla Tharp and for other members of the team. It was a total failure, and it became a massive success. But that's the question, isn't it? How did it happen? Twyla Tharp got the criticism she needed. She refused to be trapped by her past failures. She thought about the future. And then she made sure her adaptation was as rapid as possible. That is how it happened. And that's why I find that story so inspiring and such a lesson for all of us. Thanks very much for listening. Well, thank you very much, Tim. It was a pleasure listening to you. And I think we have a couple of takeaways, right, for our audience. Should we take those first? Yes, we do have slides. Yeah, we go first. Sometimes slides are okay. I'm going to shut out the sun. Because look, we're all about adaptation here. Okay. So yeah, let's see the slide. What have we got? Because I promised the takeaway slide. Yeah. So we have the three takeaways that are coming up now. Yes. So the first takeaway, what can you do on Monday? You can reframe your losses to avoid this deal or no deal problem that Frank had. Always think not, oh, I just lost the 75,000 euros. But start from zero. Okay. What's past is past. What are the opportunities for the future? And actually, this can be quite simple. You can do this in a second, a single second. You can just think about the future, not the past. But it can also be really big. Think about Shiva at Ikea. I mean, what I heard from her was a willingness to basically rethink absolutely every single thing that Ikea did, you know, from the transport to the energy right to the meatballs. We think about, we start from zero. What is it that we can change to improve our supply chain? So that's the first thing. Reframe your losses and think about the future, not the past. So the second thing is to think about prototypes and experiments. Remember Paul McCready and his disposable aeroplane. And whenever you've got a product, an offering, a project, whatever it is, think about how would we learn if things went wrong? How could we learn quickly and cheaply? And actually, I know Peter from Dow was emphasizing other benefits of his digitization, lots of different advantages. But the thing that really struck me was, wow, if something went wrong in the Dow supply chain, you would learn so quickly, you would know so fast that there was a problem. That's the lesson I took away from that. And then the third takeaway is the long-term. And this is about who you have in the room, who you recruit, who you're engaging with and how you're engaging with them. Solomon Asch's experiment showed that if everyone is saying the same thing, you don't have a proper conversation. Once you have different views in the room, it completely breaks the spell of conformity and people will say what they really think. But that requires rethinking the way you have conversations in an organization. And it also requires actively seeking to recruit people with a different point of view. And that's hard because we always like people who look a bit like us. We always find it attractive, I think, to work with people who see the world in the same way that we do. And there was a moment in Keith's speech when he talked about some of the stevedores tearing up crying because they were being asked for their opinion. I thought it was so interesting to just get views from everywhere in the organization. And people really respond to that. But also, if there's a problem, if something's going wrong, you're much more likely to find out about it if you are asking everybody and you're involving everybody. And I just wanted to say, by the way, Keith, thank you for keeping the ports open. And we've all been, I know it's different everywhere in the world, but the experience of basically being locked in my house for weeks and weeks, and marveling that the stuff keeps coming through the door, the supermarkets still have the food, Amazon is still delivering. And I know Maersk has done an amazing job in doing that. And we ignore logistics and we ignore supply chains. Oh, wait, wait, we definitely don't ignore. I tell you, we don't. But thank you. Thank you very much, Tim, for the last takeaways. I think we're just jumping right into the questions. We have received a lot of them. First of all, in times like the ones that we are right now, where agility is really important, and that sometimes translates to really fast decision making, how do you make sure that you balance that out with having the right people in the room? Sometimes you basically don't have the time. A practical example of that could be a factory manager. Somebody got infected in the factory. Should he close it down or should he not close down? Should he call his people in? What do we do about that? Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't pretend that this is easy. So I used to work in really long-term planning. I worked for Shell, the oil company, and we used to have 20-year scenarios. And so we would really take our time in thinking things through. And yeah, sometimes it just has to be one person who makes that decision. I would say, normally, it's possible to make a call to get a second opinion. But if you can't do that, then at least reflect on what are the perspectives? What would people say to me if they were here? What opinions would they have? Because very often, even to frame the question like that, you actually know the answer. You know what other people would say. And then we just have to back people up in their judgment. If they've had to make a rapid decision and if they've made a mistake, we can't blame them for that. We have to recognize that people are needing to move fast and operating in difficult circumstances. And that is a great cue. I think there is another question from Sarah. In your mind, what is the most common mistake we do when doing these changes or transformation of our business? Meaning that if you take the glasses of adaptability into it, what is the most common mistake that you observe out there? What's the most common mistake? I mean, I think the most common mistake is simply to to think that everybody sees the problem in the same way that you do. And this is what psychologists call this naive realism. Like, I see the world clearly and this is the way the world is. And everybody else is seeing it in some slightly mistaken way. And it's so fundamental to the way we humans think. Like, we can't help but see things from our own perspective. So I think that that is absolutely overwhelming. Adam Smith, the great economist and philosopher, said, oh, you know, if you heard that there was an earthquake in China and a million people had died, you would say, this is terrible. This is a terrible thing. And if you were told, oh, you can just lose the tip of your finger and you could save all those lives, you would say, of course, I would lose the tip of my finger. I'll save those lives. But actually, when you went to bed at night, if you knew that you'd lose the tip of your finger, you wouldn't sleep. But if you knew that a million people died in an earthquake in China, you would sleep okay. So we're not selfish. We care about other people. We want to help other people. But fundamentally, we always see the world from our own perspective. And that, I think, makes change management very difficult because you don't know. It's really hard to know how others are going to react. And then, as just a final question from one of our viewers, if you find out that, you know, it's in a practical term, I guess, if you find out that people try to put you apart and they don't adapt or they don't involve you, even though you really want to be heard, any advice for that or any practical things you think can help you with this? Because this is always seen from, you know, the person taking the decision. That's the story. But how about the ones in around that that really want to be heard? Yeah, we always think of ourselves like as the hammer, right? We're making the decision. But actually, you know, there's the nail has an opinion as well. I mean, it's always important to ask people what they think. It's always important to get people's feedback. We tend to think, oh, I'm going to that shows that I've run out of time. So I'm going to stop. I'll make the answer to the question short. Somebody who's objecting to change, it's very easy for us to sort of say, well, this person is stubborn. This person just doesn't get it. The difficult thing is that may be true because we do resist change. I resist change. We all resist change. It makes us uncomfortable. And sometimes when we're pushed into it, we really embrace it and we rise to the occasion. And then we look back and go, what on earth was I worried about? But sometimes people are resisting change for very good reasons because they see a problem that maybe the person at the top doesn't see or doesn't understand. So I think it's important to have that frank conversation to listen. But at the same time, sometimes leadership means you have to push people. So do both. This is why management isn't easy, right? Yeah, but fair. Thank you very much, Tim. It was great having you with us. And we wish you also a fantastic day. And now back to you, Susan. Thanks. Thanks, Tim. And thanks, Pedro, for some great questions from the audience. We have heard four speakers with three key takeaways each. So you're probably thinking, what on earth is there left to say? But we actually do think that there's an important message missing here. And it actually really relates to the last point Tim made around getting different perspectives and listening to people maybe that are asking uncomfortable questions from probably places you would least expect them. So we have consulted with future stakeholders, namely our kids. This is Vanessa and Victor, my two children. And who is this? This is Arthur, data scientist and auto quality director. Because we've talked about future proving operations, but the future is not in our hands, right, Pedro? I mean, we obviously have a huge responsibility because the decisions that we make today are going to have a big impact on the future of our children, who might just be your next employee. Vanessa has about 10 years to go before she's entering the workforce. So we would like to leave you with a few reflections on the future of the work. Yeah, I think just to compliment a bit on that, Susan, it's really important to say that, you know, one thing is sustainability. The other thing is sustainable decisions or things that really will matter for a couple of years ahead. And throughout today, we actually heard four different perspectives on how that could look like. In essence, it's actually the same situation seen from four different lengths. First, we heard a bit about transformation. And my key takeaway on that was how do you actually manage to take 22,000 people and improve productivity by 40 percent? I mean, it is really impressive. Then Peter comes in and an easy going guy and talks about, you know, digitalization is just something that we do every day. 109 factories just like that, creating an ecosystem that works. That is also mind blowing. And then we come with IKEA and talking about, you know what, sustainability and thinking about those are to be seen as two different things, as sustainability here and profitability there, forget about it. If that's not included, if it's not something that is really at your core, you're not going to survive in the next couple of years. And I think that was really important for me. Finally, I think that the 680 million, what's called the meatballs? The plant balls. The plant balls. Today is 680 million. I don't know. A lot of people, a lot of meatballs. And then now I think that adaptability, of course, is at score because it talks about our human aspect, how we take decisions and how we can enable ourselves to be better at that. Now, I can't imagine, I can't stop thinking about how is the successful company going to look like in the next couple of years? Because basically these are for the ones who were behind us just in a minute. These are the companies that they will be working for. Would they have the sustainability agenda so strong? Would we have that be able to transform? I guess we're going to find out. Exactly. We want to leave you with three shifts that we see connected to the topics that we've heard so many great things about today already. The first one is all around transformation, which I think Keith already had so many good points about. We really see the necessity for a shift in the way we transform in our organizations. And it has to do with becoming fit for the future and fit for humans at the same time. So we cannot, we can no longer afford to do transformation in a way where 10 people go into a room and then sit there and close the door and out comes the perfect strategy. And now all we have to do is get buy-in and convince people that this is the right thing to do. It will no longer work. We've seen in the examples of Ikea and APM terminals and the DAO that it's essential to involve people in your transformation initiatives to create co-ownership and to co-create it with them. So this notion of, you know, few people making decisions without anyone else fully understanding why are we actually doing this is not going to work. You're not going to stay relevant. So what we think needs to happen is that real change, real transformation, it needs to be rolled up and not just pushed down. That is a great point. And now to the second topic, which we heard today on digitalization. I think there is a tendency and many, many different companies where digitalization is seen as a ad hoc thing. You know, we do it here or we do it here when opportunity arises. And somehow I will be a bit provocative also that is being used too much in marketing materials where people just think that the little nerds on a back corner in some dark room will actually rise. And then you basically put them in nice pictures and say, we are super digital. We're going to deliver the word. And that is just, well, not sustainable. It's not going to lead anybody to anywhere. So we were just more from ad hoc digital solutions to something much more sustainable, which is about thinking digitalization in your business, being about digital natives, a hundred percent transparency from start to end. That means also in your planning process, like Peter said, but can also be any place else. A good analogy for that is when we talked with Shiva, right? She was really mentioning that this is part of our core. Sustainability is our core. If digitalization doesn't become part of your core, something that is a given in every discussion, then you're never going to succeed because don't fool yourselves. This is not going to go away. And last but not least, there is also a shift that needs to happen in sustainability. And that is really the core belief that we have, that operations can play such an instrumental part in actually achieving sustainable targets. If we think about sustainable operations and not just as sustainability as a risk or as something that we need to do because of a compliance mindset, right? It's this necessary evil that's always kind of, I don't know, itching in the back pocket. And hopefully, we'll find some tool that we can replace the plastic with something renewable, right? Instead, we really need to think about sustainability as your competitive edge. And that is meaning that you have to think about sustainability in its entirety, in its complexity, and think it into every aspect, every process that you are looking into reinventing and rethinking. And we believe that the sustainability approach can actually create so much purpose in the organization, it can create so much value to drive people to do the right thing, right? And it can also really, I think it can answer the demands that we already see from consumers, from customers, but also from investors, and maybe partners that you have that are a few steps further down the sustainability line. So you really need to rethink and shift the mindset around sustainability to think it deeply into your system. And just to summarize this, I think that, you know, some of these things might seem like an utopian dream. You know, this is so far fetched for us. Forget it, Monday morning, everything back to business. But I think today we have seen real examples of how those things are already in place. They are already being implemented. So I would like to start by saying thank you very much for our speakers today that gave us real examples. And I had at least a lot of takeaways besides the meatball thing and knowing how to look at the cameras. I think it's been a really great session for myself. At the same time, I also would like to thank you for joining us today. I know that, you know, sitting for two and a half hours sometimes might be a bit troublesome, or you might want to go to the toilet before the five minutes break. But in essence, thank you very much for being with us. Finally, there is also a couple of things, practicalities, if you may, on if you really want to be curious about this, you receive the links and the materials after the session is over. We will also be launching a podcast on how to future-proof your operations. We're really going to go a bit more in detail on how those problems can be approached in other places. And then finally, no, I think that's it. Basically, we're going to send you a couple of information, right? Yes. There will be a lot of handouts for you to take notes and also kind of revisit the key takeaways that might have, you know, not all made it into your head at this point in time. So please, you know, reach out if you have any information. And last but not least, we don't want to leave you with this, you know, follow us message because, you know, that's not very inspiring. But I do want to leave you, and I'm just going to put my notes away because I don't need them for this. But I want to leave you with a story. And the story actually revolves around the pictures that you've seen earlier on. When I asked my kids whether it was okay to use their pictures in this event, because that's what I do. You know, we talk a lot about data privacy. You know, you can never start too young. My daughter asked me, so, Mommy, what are people going to learn at this event? And I told her, you know, we're going to talk about future-proving operations. And we're going to talk about making organizations fit for the future and fit for humans. And she was nodding along and thought that was all very interesting, maybe understanding 50% of what I said. But then she was kind of looking at me, but, Mommy, old people don't change. You know, she was thinking about her grandma and her grandpa and me because we're all old people for a 10-year-old. And she said, you know, they do the same thing. They have the same job. They live in the same house for such a long time. Time spent being, you know, two to three years here. They don't change. And I said, well, you know, change doesn't happen overnight. You know, all of the things you would say to her. And last but not least, she kind of dropped the microphone when she asked me, okay, Mom, so you're going to talk at this event. You hope that you're going to make, you know, some kind of change. Do you really think that that makes a difference? Yeah. And I was standing there like, to be honest, I don't know. I don't know yet. Because I think we've given you so many concrete actions and takeaways that hopefully, not in the next minute, but on Monday or in a month's time, if she was to ask me again, I could actually say, yes, it makes a difference. You're preparing for the future. So thank you very much for joining and have a great day. Thank you. Thank you. Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay!