A real conversation is quite merciful. By definition, you don't have to have the whole conversation at once. All you have to do is begin it, and then return to it. You can fail at the conversation to begin with, you can humiliate yourself in the conversation. So there's always a sense of being broken open by a real conversation. There's only one place you can start, and that's where you are now, with all your defenses and the ability to make the invitation in the midst of that. What's the conversation you don't want to have? As soon as you ask that question, you're being invited into the courageous conversation because almost by definition, the conversation is a good thing. The conversation you don't want to have is the courageous conversation. So what's the invitation I'm not making? What's the conversation I'm not having? Henriette, where do we need to have more courageous conversations? I think we could benefit from having it at many levels, both more in a company setting, but you can say also more in a personal development or career development aspect. If we start in a company setting, one area where I'm a little bit puzzled sometimes, because it may not actually, I don't even see it as a courageous conversation, but is this, how do we have a reflection culture? So we always think about what could we have done better? What I sometimes experience is something happens, big or small, but then we can often, or they can be externalized. It's because of what everyone else did. But what is it we could have done better? And I think that reflective muscle of always saying, okay, what went well? What could have improved? What did we learn? I think there's so much power in that reflection and learning culture and being open about that and building a culture where people are not afraid of blame, but really focus on the learning and the perspectives and have that reflection. I don't see that as necessarily particularly courageous, but I'm surprised often how some people seem to be lacking the courage to go into those conversations. But I can see it from the point of view, though, that if you open up that kind of conversation around, what can we learn? You're also opening a bit of vulnerability around, we might not have done everything perfect. And to me, it's almost like leaning into that courageous conversation. Also, with that comes this willingness for heartbreak. You have to be willing to have your heart broken a little bit. And I think David White also says, you never survive a real conversation in the sense that you're always transformed. And I think that has to do with that. And I think that has to do with that really sort of opening up and being willing to actually lean in and also have a look at yourself in what kind of role do you play in this situation. And I would say often, you can say how little real conversations we are having. And I think the power, sometimes it can even be just a few minutes. But if there's the courage to really ask the right questions, and open up, then it can be a conversation can unfold. And you may look at your colleague in a completely different way, because suddenly you understand things in a different context and so on. There are clearly other areas where courageous conversations, both company setting and whether it's in a career trajectory or feedback element. And if I should just build on the feedback, I think, at least an area I'm sometimes struggling with both in terms of asking for it, but also giving it can be how do we really have the courage to give also the difficult feedback. Yes. So everyone wants feedback, but do we really get the right feedback? And are we also sometimes picking up what feedback can come in many forms? So it may also be what was not said or what was the reaction. And you then may have to have the courage to actually dig deep deeper and say, okay, dig deeper and say, okay, I sense something was not right here. Why and how and go into the more personal level. And that, when you, sometimes to me, like the courageous conversation, whether it takes place or not, is really sort of decided in a moment within, right? Where you decide, do I lean in and give this feedback? That's a constructive feedback. Or do I not? But often I would think courageous conversations. You need to be more vulnerable. And you need also to, it's personal, it's vulnerability, and you need to open yourself up. And that's out of that. Sometimes may come nothing, but sometimes may come really good insights and reflection. I believe a lot in authentic leadership. And I also believe a lot in very smart employees. And I think even if you try to, you know, you don't appear like, you don't appear like, without doubt or without false, people will see through it. So I think we may as well just be comfortable that they see it. So you might as well lean into those conversations and talk about both the good and the bad and having that dialogue. David White says in another context where I've listened to him also that you can just ask the four people closest to you, you know, what are the conversations Henriette is not having with herself or with others. And they will be able to tell immediately right. So that kind of just acknowledgements that people pick up on a lot of stuff. I can say for myself, one of the examples have been around the aspects of DI, so diversity and inclusion, where I at least also earlier have been cautious of not involving myself because I did not want to be excluded by being one of the few women in the room perhaps. So it became a little bit of this academic discussions around DI. And I think that's where in some of those discussions, we need to lean in and also be true and honest about our feelings. And also everyone around that table then also need to be able to accept and say, okay, it may not be enough anymore to say, I didn't mean it like that or I had good intentions, but what are actually the outcomes? Yeah. And I can totally relate with that sense of it being almost feeling dangerous to stick your neck out and speak up for that particular agenda. Yeah. I was driving a DI initiative in a former position, but it took me a long time to figure out whether I really wanted to say yes to that because there was so much at stake. But then magic things can happen when we say yes. Yes.