Good morning, guys, and thanks for tuning in. My name is Mas and I am from Implement Consulting Group. My department here is Commercial Strategy and Transformation and that's a 150 people group and I'm leading a team called Digital Customer Engagement within this. So that's a bit about me. I'll also be joined later today by one of my clients, Andrea from Wavin. A bit more about me. I've been working in the past five, six years exclusively with B2B and life science companies, helping them to help sales and marketing work together with various projects within Digital Lead Generation, Omni Channel and account-based marketing, which is the theme for today. A few practicalities. You will get the slides when we're done with this. We'll send them out afterwards. And please feel free to ask questions along the way. Put them in the chat and I'll see if I can address them as we go through the presentation. And hopefully we'll finish a bit before 10 so you'll also have time for a cup of coffee before your next meeting. All right. So today's theme, account-based marketing, a strategic approach where go-to-market efforts are personalized across multiple channels to drive sales at target accounts. So that is the definition in a nutshell. And before we unfold that completely, let's look a little bit at the impact. If we look at revenue or sales growth, we can decompose that into four distinct levers. The number of opportunities we generate, the win rate, the conversion rate from opportunity to order, multiplied by the average order size. And we can divide that by the sales cycle. And there's a lot of evidence that ABM, account-based marketing, is in fact able to influence these four components. As you can see here, it can help increase the number of opportunities in the top funnel. It can also address the conversion rate or the win rate, the order size and also the sales cycle. So I don't want to go through all of these examples. These are all third-party data sources indicating various metrics to demonstrate the efficacy. But for reference, it works. And we also ourselves, a little bit closer to home here at Implement, have worked with a lot of companies in the Nordics and Europe to help different industries achieve very significant return on marketing investment using a combination of Salesforce and digital channels. So both in unison. And here are some examples of that across various industries. So that is to set the stage a little bit. And now I want to take you through today's agenda. We'll talk a bit about what it is. So a definition and an explanation and want to get pretty hands-on and concrete because there's often confusion around how it actually works. And then I want to move into why you should do it and also a bit about when to do it, meaning in which type of customer segments is it mostly applicable or in which type of go-to-market dynamic. And finally, briefly on how. And then when we're done with that, I will ask Andrea from Wavin to share a bit about her experience implementing account-based marketing in Wavin. All right. And again, feel free to ask questions in the chat if you have any. So getting into what it actually is. A way to break it down is in these three layers of a pyramid. At the top of the pyramid, we have one-to-one or intensive account-based marketing, which is applicable in a scenario with relatively few target accounts. Very high touch, very personalized. And high touch means we're investing a lot in each exposure of the customer, whether that is sales driven or marketing driven. Next layer here is one-to-few or targeted ABM, more relevant for a larger volume of accounts. And then finally, one-to-many, which you can call ABM at scale or more traditional lead generation. What we'll be focusing on today is the two here at the top. So that is more intensive ABM with a slightly lower set of target accounts. And some of the tactics or approaches to these segments can be explained with an analogy from phishing. And here's an example. Typical marketing tactics are a little akin to phishing with a net. So a little bit broad. And sales tactics are typically a little more directed like phishing with spears. And these two different approaches with marketing, typically driving brand awareness, top funnel, usually hard to identify who's engaging with the brand. But we are just pushing it out. And then sales going much more directed and having individual relationships. These two don't operate in unison is what we experience a lot. So this is the picture of what it sometimes looks like that marketing is driving awareness. And that is a bit of a scattered approach. Some of that hits the target audience, the customer that it is intended for. But it's hard to tell which part of the initiatives go where. And sales is much more directed specifically at the target customers, but often not leveraging digital channels in a very sophisticated fashion. And in some cases also relatively unsystematic. And this can be done in a more orchestrated fashion. And this is where account based marketing comes in. That can have marketing and sales working together, phishing with the spears to address the target customers. And this is a little, in a way, a little bit of departure from a go to market model that we encounter in a lot of B2B companies where that is predominantly sales driven. And sales will engage leads that they are working on, that they are not doing business with right now in a relatively simplistic fashion, following up with a particular cadence. And seeing if they are moving into buy mode and if they are interested in picking up the conversation. And ABM is more continuous and personalized exposure across different channels that maintains the brand top of mind and involving both sales and marketing. So I hope this makes sense. That was the brief overall fly in. And now I'd like to move into a case where I attempt to explain a bit more in detail how this works. And the case here is from Wavin and parts of that is real examples from the project I'm doing with these guys. But parts of it is also made up. It's conceptual because I can't share everything. But a little bit of background. Wavin is a construction company and they manufacture pipes and fittings, among other things. And that these are used to move around clean and waste water, both in the ground and in buildings above the ground. And they sell these pipes and fittings to installers and distributors. However, what they want to, their commercial strategy involves a move upstream. So that is, if you're familiar with a typical construction industry value chain, they want to move to the specifiers that come before the distributors. And installers because the specifiers such as architects or companies that build houses typically determine which type of pipes and fittings are necessary. And that is what goes on the specification. So this is the scenario. This is the context commercially for why Wavin wanted to explore account based marketing. And feel free to ask me questions about the context. Otherwise, we'll have Andrea visiting us later to share her learnings from that. So briefly how we approach this process and I'll get back to that in the how section. But just to set the stage for the case, what we did was we started out exploring what is the fit with the commercial strategy? How is ABM supporting this upstream move? And there are particular elements like we want to get closer to stakeholders that we are not so well connected with because we have better representation downstream among distributors and installers, for example. The next step is mapping out the target audience and some examples of that could be that we are targeting the UK, that we are going for regional house builders and there are some size thresholds, etc. that determine who is the target audience and based on that we can derive a list of target accounts and contacts. So this is one of the examples of how it's quite different from more traditional marketing that approaches a segment as a whole. Where here it's based on account lists and contacts within those accounts that we are targeting. Then we go into building these orchestrated account based marketing plays and here's some different variations of that and I'm going to show you an example in a little bit. And then we move on to deployment and it goes live and then in multiple different channels and we monitor the performance. So this is the sequence of a typical ABM pilot that both applies it in the context of a pilot campaign but also builds capabilities so that this operating model with account based marketing is repeatable afterwards. Let's look at one of the plays to make this as tangible as possible and then let's see if it makes a bit more sense what it actually does. This is an example of a play where around a live event. So for example one or two live events in the UK that's hosted. There's a capacity constraint of a few hundred people so there's a limit to how many people we can fit and we want to have the most influential stakeholders or contacts in our target audience to be present. And then use that as an opportunity to get closer to them and this can be a mix of both known accounts relations we already have that we want to nurture but it can also be new accounts that sales are not connected with today. And this starts with exposure on social media for example in this particular play moves on to a different type of tactic outreach that's more direct through LinkedIn where you can write to individuals using messages and even physical letters. So this is also an example of how this is omni-channel it's not just digital. And as we move in eventually the target audience lands at a landing page to sign up and this whole process is about attracting the sign ups. And then they get reminders to make sure that they actually show up and we finally conduct the event. As a follow up to this there's continuous exposure in different channels both digitally but there's also sales reps following up. And the objective of this of course is to book sales meetings. And all of this is directed at the pretty narrowly defined target audience that I mentioned earlier which is in fact possible as opposed to the sort of idea that marketing is only applicable for very broad scenarios. I want to show you how each of these steps unfold to make it as tangible as possible. For example 10 weeks prior to the event we might set up the targeting in the different channels and starting up with social media we can actually upload lists of individuals that we want to target here so that it doesn't go out broadly but to these specific people. And furthermore we can leverage things like thought leader ads which means that it's not posted by the brand but it's posted by individual sales reps or senior executives at Wavin that connect a little bit better with the audience. Then a little bit later we supplement that with another form of outreach on social media using for example tools like HeyReach where you can organize and automate outreach so that if people don't respond it will automatically send up a follow up message and depending on how they answer you can have different outcomes. It can visit their profile their LinkedIn profile with or add them as a connection etc. So really automating and superpowering LinkedIn on behalf of the sales reps with relatively limited sales involvement beyond perhaps approving the messages. But then actually marketing can orchestrate a lot of this so sales are not distracted from their day to day work. As we move on then reinforced with a letter which is a physical letter is a channel that's underutilized to make it appear more personal that can be signed by the sales rep. And then a follow up call conducted by sales so this can be orchestrated through a reminder and CRM that pops up with the sales rep that here's the call script you need to call these individuals. This is how they have engaged either they have or they haven't but this follow up call is intended to increase the likelihood that they're actually going to participate. And then finally some of those arrive at the landing page sign up and if they don't they are enrolled in a retargeting flow so they're exposed to this event in multiple different channels at high frequency. Now as we progress here and closer to the event it's necessary with some reminders that can all be planned in with email automation up front. And then finally when we conduct the event we the sales reps participate there may be keynote speakers at the event but there can also be sales reps that try in a soft not too salesy fashion to book follow up meetings with some of the participants. And then when the event is over there's follow up similarly structured like before with a call so executed by sales but orchestrated by sales and marketing together and perhaps even with the SMS follow ups. And then a lot of these participants in a live event may not be in buy mode at that particular time but their participation in the event provided an email consent that we can use for repeated follow up both on email but also on other channels to keep the brand top of mind and to make sure we capture it if they go into buy mode again. And eventually some of that turns into sales meetings and here we can leverage some of the insights we have from digital engagement if we've exposed them to our website they visited that or they open some of the emails we may have some indication of what they're interested in. So sales reps can actually go to meetings being a little bit more informed than if it's just a cold lead so to speak. And from here on out it's the more traditional sales process. So this is one example of an ABM play and how that supports the sales process both top and mid funnel. So this is one example of what the impact of this can be from a funnel perspective. And this is what the conversion rates might look like with a traditional approach to events because events conceptually is nothing new that you can do this without account based marketing. But sometimes you'll experience limited impact. In fact even in implement we also do events like the one we're conducting right now that's just not physical or live but the concept is the same. And some of the events that we conduct are a little bit like what you see here that there are some relatively few participants. And we do get some brand exposure but it's not we forego the opportunity of following up consistently. If we apply account based marketing that brings about a number of small improvements and when you combine those the funnel impact can be quite substantial. The first one might be a little bit counterintuitive because that's actually reducing the top funnel by being much more focused. And this targeting is addressing fewer people but on the other hand it's the right ones. And in terms of cost that can reduce the cost of paid media exposure but sometimes it also goes up because we have to use more expensive channels to make it very directed. Next we typically see significant improvement in the upper mid funnel. So the number of qualified prospects that are exposed. And that's due to having a broader channel mix, having better targeting and more personalized messaging. Now as that affects the top of the funnel with the conversion rates that we saw from before that trickles down immediately as you can see here to increase the bottom funnel impact as well. But there are more parts of ABM that still add to the efficacy here. In the mid funnel to drive more signups we have automated reminders and improved retargeting and that increases the number of signups which also has spillover effects to the bottom funnel. And finally we can have more structured sales follow up instead of just waiting for the leads to call inbound. And we have automated nurturing flows to keep the brand top of mind. So ultimately in this conceptual case is a 5x improvement over the tactic we saw before and might result in more orders. So I hope that makes sense in terms of how it affects the sales funnel. And keep in mind this is just one play and account based marketing is more than that. But this was an attempt to show specifically in one case how it unfolds. You would need to apply multiple tactics at the same time. And this is a few ways this is different from traditional sales and marketing. The siloed version you saw before with the marketing with the net and the sales guys with the spears. This is sales and marketing collaborating and working together and orchestrating things. That also requires more time together and more coordination. And even though this seems complex what I just showed you and keep in mind this is one play out of multiple plays. Marketing is doing a lot of the heavy lifting so that this does not distract sales too much from what they have to do. For example sales might provide a target list, might provide insights on what are the pains of the customers because they are closer to them in daily dialogue with them. And of course on the execution side there are some calls and sometimes some emails to manage the leads. But a lot of this can actually be automated. So it also doesn't, the burden on marketing is not overly high either. What also is different is as I've touched upon before is how targeted it is going specifically for identified selected high value accounts. And finally this is personalized so it's less generic. When we apply it in a pilot it's easy to personalize because as in the example I provided this was specifically for house builders in the UK of a certain size. So we can make that very relevant as we scale ABM. We need to apply the same degree of personalization to every segment we touch upon. And with recent advances in AI that can definitely help but it is possible to apply personalization at scale. And this is not only in the messaging itself it's also in the delivery. So that means a lot of the emails and other forms even LinkedIn messaging will seem like it's actually coming and it's written manually by a sales rep. But a lot of that is orchestrated by marketing and sales would be signing off. So this is where it requires some collaboration. And of course when it comes to known accounts you need to be a little bit cautious because that can interfere with ongoing sales dialogues. So again requires coordination. So I hope that makes sense as a case study. Now conceptually what it is what does this mean for the customer experience. And here's an example of how that might play out over a period of time. If you imagine a calendar over 12 months and you have exposure in different channels. Now if we only used one of these channels for sure the customer would miss some of those exposures. So therefore we have to be present in multiple channels and we need to be consistent over time. So this is how it might unfold as we're continuously exposed. They're going to miss a lot of the touch point that they don't see. But then in aggregate when we're in multiple channels and we are consistently exposing they're likely to see our message. And this is just more effective than let's say only sales plus the website and a tiny paid media budget with very limited exposure. Another way to illustrate this is if you imagine brand preference on the y-axis and then time on the x-axis. And in more traditional sales-led go-to-market approaches we sometimes see that the brain preference simply doesn't get the uplift that is needed. So for example we might have a call and then shortly after the brain is top of mind but the customer is not in buy mode so it doesn't really stick. And then maybe another attempted outreach that misses. Again a call and so forth. So the issue is when they do go into buy mode the brain preference is simply not high enough to reach the threshold and maybe we're not listed if it's a tender situation or they call our competitors instead. So the idea with account-based marketing is that we can increase buying intent with more frequent and relevant touch points. And imagine that we have all these different channels working in unison of course some of those will be missed but a lot of them will still be caught. And then eventually when they go into buy mode they're more likely to contact us and this also drives retention and better relationships with our current contacts. So that is the what of it. Now let's move a little bit into why you should do it. So conceptually if you look at the buying journey we research from the corporate executive board found after surveys with 5,000 B2B buyers that they're 57% through the buying journey by the time they reach out to a sales rep or they reach out to a supplier for an offer. And the problem with this is that we're often in situations where we're dealing directly with procurement and maybe they are less interested in the nuances of our value proposition than just looking at price. So a lot of the clients we're interested in addressing the customers a little bit earlier in this buying journey. And according to Forrester research then that can be achieved with digital channels because two-thirds of B2B buyers say that they can finalize a vendor list based only on digital content. So there is a case for digital here. Now let's look a little bit closer at these 57% the first part of the buying journey. If we have a pretty standard buying process that looks like this in the beginning they are basically not interested in hearing from any vendors then they may become interested in problem identification as the pain becomes moved from being latent to actually being acknowledged. And in the last part here they are actively looking for a solution and even a vendor. Now at any given time numbers vary but the vast majority of buyers they are not actively looking for anything. And a small part are in the market looking for a new supplier or a solution. But most of our marketing and sales resources are focused on these last 5%. How can we convert the ones that are in the market looking for a solution? And that makes sense because we have shorter sales cycle here. They are going to buy faster from us. And we also have a higher conversion rate because they have high intent. But it also has disadvantages that it is usually very competitive. All our competitors in the market are going for the same accounts that are in buy mode. And that is why we end up in situations with a lot of procurement contact. And this is also where procurement simply has the power to choose here if we have not had a chance to present our value proposition to other stakeholders in the buying center previously. But the other end of the spectrum, the earlier stages in the buying process, this is where we really can unlock the latent part of the market, the 95% we looked at before by educating the customers. And as they start to realize they have a problem, that can actually stimulate demand. And so many advantages to having focus on the early stages of the buying process. Now, I've been speed talking a little bit to make sure we have time for Andrea. And now I would like you to enter a poll that's going to pop up on the right side next to the slides in a little bit. And I want you to reflect upon whether you experience any of these issues. Because these, how you experience or which of these you experience can dictate a little bit whether ABM is relevant for you and also how it's applied. So out of curiosity, I'd like you to think about which of these four issues you experience. And if you experience multiple of them, because we know many of our clients do, then it's also fair. But then just select the most predominant pain that you experience. So commercially, thinking about sales, not marketing or sales individually actually, but just commercially as a whole. It could be that you're good at converting leads, but you're not so good at getting new ones in your more farmers than hunters. Or it could be that you have a strong innovative offering. We often see this with digital solutions if you're coming from hardware sales. But it's not gaining the traction. Cost of sales is too high. Reps are spending time educating the market, but it's just a long road. Third example here is that marketing and sales don't collaborate closely. That it's marketing doing top funnel awareness and it doesn't align up with how sales, their target list. And finally, marketing is actually generating leads, but the leads are irrelevant. They're too low quality or they are the right type of leads, but they're not prioritized by sales. For example, if they're considered to be relevant, the fit with the ideal customer profile, but low buying intent. Now, I will invite you to respond to the poll and then I'll move on a bit. And then perhaps we can revisit to see if there's a tendency here. Let's look a little bit at how or when you should actually consider this. Not going directly into ABM, but just starting with saying when should you consider digital in the first place, supplementing your sales efforts with a digital element or more marketing driven element. And this is one example to if you are interested in driving more profitable or better customer engagements. This can be one situation where you have a closer connection to your brand or to your strengths of your brand. This can be, for example, that you're a turnkey solution provider or you're an integrator or it can be a brand physician around that we're the supplier that you go to for high complexity problems. Another example is if you're going for specific hard to reach markets or segments or where you're not so well connected and you're struggling to drive the growth you have as a goal. And this can be a particular geographical region that you want to penetrate that you're new in. It can be specific types of products or services, perhaps some that are more profitable or the example I provided before. If it's digital services with recurring revenue that you're having a hard time pushing through with. Or it could be tier one key accounts or it could even be a specific job function. A lot of clients we're working with have issues going up to more senior stakeholders that have more influence in the buying decision, less technical, more business, for example. Another example is if you want to increase share of wallet through cross sales. And you can achieve that by making sure that the customer is aware of all the offerings in your portfolio. And an example of this is if building on the analogy from before with the software sales, you know us for hardware sales. But we also provide services and software that you can use to optimize your business. And finally here, you could be in a situation where you want to reduce the leakage in the funnel. So, for example, if you're not that good at following up on leads that didn't turn into buy mode immediately. So, that could be, for example, customers that you worked for a few years ago that you haven't kept in touch with. Leads that express low engagement. So, you leave them behind. Or sort of the periphery in the sales reps network. So, these are four situations where it would make sense to supplement your go-to-market approach with digital elements. Specifically for ABM, when we're dealing with the top of the pyramid here, it's especially relevant if you're talking high-value accounts. If you're selling to a buying center with multiple stakeholders involved, you are dealing with long and complex deals. And this land and expand strategy where you get into an account and can build upon that position. All right. We're going to move on because we're running a bit out of time. So, I'll have to check out the stats in the poll from before afterwards. And perhaps I can share that with you in an email because I want to have time for Andrea as well. A little bit on how before we move into the virtual fireside chat with Andrea. We have an ABM framework and it consists of six building blocks. The first part is around strategy. You need to determine where you're going and how you measure success. The next part is target audience mapping. You need to define which accounts are we targeting, which type of contacts do we want. And you need to build a detailed list of that. And you also need to determine where to source the data for that. Then from a channel perspective, how do we reach these people? And then what do we say to them? So, the content part. And how do we say it in a way where we are consistently present? So, not the blitz campaign with peaks and exposure and then silence, but more long-term nurturing flows. Then you need some technology to support it. This part is usually pretty simple and then you need a setup with sales and marketing that are actually collaborating. So, these are some of the elements that we use to structure our work with clients to build this type of account-based marketing engine, so to speak. Finally, we have the process. It consists of the same steps that you saw before. And I'm not going to go into the details. I'm going to share the slides, but these are the rough steps. It's about starting to align ABM with your commercial objectives. So, you're applying it to some of the challenges that I mentioned before instead of it just being a new shiny thing, so to speak. Then you need to map out your target accounts and the contacts and then define what will these ABM plays look like. For example, like the event play I just shared, which makes sense in the context of your market situation. Then it can take some time for development of the content. And this is not just marketing content. This is also call scripts and other elements that are applied by sales. And this depends on how much pre-existing content that can be reused that you have. And then finally, it goes into execution. And by the end of this, you not only have the pilot results, the leads and the funnel, so to speak, or the increased awareness of your brand among target accounts, but you also have a playbook and a roadmap for how you can scale this. So, that's what the typical process looks like when we work with account-based marketing. And now I hope that Andrea is standing by because now we're moving in to the fireside chat. And unless there are any questions, no? All right. Then I would like to invite Andrea. And now I've set the stage a little bit for what the Wavin is and what the context is. But perhaps if we have Andrea online, she can start by introducing herself. Yes. Good morning, Mats. Thank you for the invitation. Andrea Rubiano. I am a global director for strategic marketing in Orbia BNI or Wavin. I'm 17 years in the company and really excited to talk about IBM today. Cool. Thanks, Andrea. And I hope the platform-wise we can solve the – there's a 12-second delay on this platform. But hopefully it doesn't – we can still have this conversation and then people will just see it a little bit later. But bear with us if you ask questions and we don't answer immediately due to this delay thing. But I'm going to ask you, Andrea, a few questions. And then I invite the audience to also ask questions to Andrea. So, Andrea, tell me, why did you look into account-based marketing to begin with? Well, Mats, we started to look into IBM because we have a shift on our strategy for a couple of years now. We are moving further upstream and trying to engage earlier in the value chain with our audience. Traditionally, we've been very strong at connecting with customers closer to the point of purchase, our merchants, and directly installers as well. But now we're looking to influence early decision makers like architects, developers, people who shape the project scope and product specification before the procurement even begins. So, that move in strategy comes, of course, with a set of challenges. These audiences don't necessarily know us very well or know the different solutions that we provide. And we could not be in the radar just yet. So, we needed a different, more personalized and targeted approach to build this awareness and credibility. And IBM feels like the right fit for that. We are just starting, so we'll talk a little bit about the preparations we've done. Cool. Exciting. And I think it's cool that you embarked on this journey with us, considering how the construction industry, what they're faced with in terms of economic volatility. So, it's, but I think it's, it's the right idea to not sit idly and cut every commercial cost, but actually try to change something. So, that's, that's cool. Andrea, if you could also share with me or, and with the audience as well, how have you approached implementation or rollout of account-based marketing? Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. So, as a global team or department for marketing, we're really focusing on solutions that we can scale across the different countries. We, we are present in more than 90 countries commercially and with a presence or operations in more than 30. And so, we really need tactics or dynamics that we can take to the different countries, of course. And so, we're right now in the preparation phase. We're planning initial, initial pilots in Germany and in the UK, like you mentioned. Both are key markets for us in Europe, quite different in terms of dynamics, which also will give us a lot of valuable insights. And the focus is on architects in, in Germany and regional developers in the UK. As these two audiences are key influencers in the early stage of, of projects. We're closely working with the, the local teams to define the target accounts, to develop the messaging tailored to the specific audiences. And make sure that we have the right content and the right tools in place, of course. It's still early days, but the idea is to use these pilots to validate and refine our approach, of course, before we scale it more broadly. Cool. Cool. And I want to ask you a bit about the challenges, but it just occurred to me, I'd be curious to hear a few reflections on how this differs from the work you've done as a marketeer in the, in Wavin previously. And how this feels different, perhaps around, how's the interaction with the local markets and how's the interaction between sales and marketing. Can you share a bit about how this feels, how ABM working with this pilot feels different from the work, the marketing campaigns and work you've done in the past? Yes, absolutely. But going into this, the moment of market pressure, reduced marketing budgets, we're really, really focusing on optimizing the spend. Spending the most effective and clever way we can. So we're focused on less is more. More targeted approach, especially for this new strategy that we have going upstream. So a lot of collaboration between sales and marketing is critical. We have been defining ideal customers for our marketing activities in our previous campaigns or initiatives. But this one, ABM, is requiring a lot more definition of exactly what are the pains of the audiences are and what message do we need to communicate? And how are we going to trigger conversations and open doors for sales? So it's requiring a lot more collaboration, which is a challenge. So we're going to talk about challenges afterwards. But it is a challenge. It's been also very interesting to gain the buying and the ownership from the local teams. Because there's so much pressure in terms of all the activities they need to support with lower marketing budgets. And that we really need to show the value of ABM or the potential value of ABM. Of course, we were in very early stages of implementation. But we are, of course, we will monitor closely to see if it's an approach that we can leverage. Yeah, cool. Yeah, just a reflection as you talked about it now, having been part of the conversations on the segmentation part about what does upstream look like? Which is a pretty mixed bag of a lot of different types of companies, different accounts in various sizes and a lot of different stakeholders or potential contacts that we could target. And that would have been, especially with diminishing marketing budgets, super hard to just provide brand awareness broadly going out to such a diverse stakeholder group. Perhaps even where the brand is not so present because it's less common upstream for specifiers to think about what type of pipes and fittings they're going to use. So it makes sense to test it out in this context. And along those lines, in terms of challenges and roadblocks, what did you encounter then with account-based marketing? As I mentioned, alignment with the local teams and getting the right level of priority locally. Because ABM requires a shift, not just in the tactics that we will use, but also in the mindset. It's less about volume and more about relevance. Which means we have to invest more time up front and really understand who are we targeting and why. And so that's not always easy, as I mentioned, to get the local teams to focus because they are already stretched with the day-to-day priorities. Another piece is the coordination between sales and marketing. And so that's a lot of coordination, collaboration and ownership of those three areas at local and global level. So that getting that cross-functional alignment early on is key. Yeah, I agree with that. So let's hope that we can overcome all these barriers. And what do you see on the other side? What are you hoping to achieve with account-based marketing? Well, we're hoping that account-based marketing will help us build a go-to-market model that helps us to open doors with the right stakeholders and audiences. As you said, people that we're not actively engaging with today at a larger scale, of course, our salespeople are addressing them. But there's so much they can do in a day, you know, or in a month. So marketing can really add value there. We want to create more relevant, personalized interactions to build that trust, to build that brand positioning, and, of course, pave the way for our sales team to have meaningful conversations with these potential customers. We really want to help build those relationships, not just drive awareness, but really identify those potential customers that could provide high value to the company. Yeah, that's what we're hoping to achieve. Just find that model that we can replicate in different markets with not that much effort from the global perspective. But it's more focused on how the model works. What is the framework? What is the mindset behind it? Yeah, that makes sense. And I think also if we manage to pull this off and demonstrate that we have opened these doors and created these meaningful conversations, that we'll see something that is more common in software as a service companies that I've encountered, which is that sales and marketing teams work on a daily basis very closely together. So I think that's a cool future now. I'm moving into one of my last questions for Andrea. So this is the time if you have in the chat something before we wrap up in not too long. So my final question for you, Andrea, and then we'll see if there's anything from the audience. But that is, what are your best tips for commercial leaders that are considering account-based marketing? Yes, absolutely. Well, since we are just starting ourselves, I cannot speak for results or actually running the tactics and the place already. But focusing on the beginning of implementation, my advice is to start small. Like the pilots, just one country, one specific audience. So you can go in detail and stay close to the field. Don't over-engineer it. Simplify and really focus on learning. So testing, learning, listening, and optimizing as you go. I would also recommend to make sure that marketing and sales and product, if it's relevant, are in it from day one, that own it. And if you're in a global position, it's not another global program that is being implemented, but that they really understand the value that ABM can bring. And from the experience we've had, as soon as we explain what ABM is to the salespeople, they can see already why it could be relevant for them. And finally, I would say be patient. It is a long game. Implement has made a lot of emphasis in this part. In these moments of high market pressure, all companies potentially are focused on the short-term results. This is not about short-term results. It's about building those relationships, as we mentioned. And it's a long-term bet to bring value into the business. So I would say patience, building those foundations for a more strategic engagement over time. That makes a lot of sense. And this is also a quick reflection on the patience is that I see too many marketing departments who are trying out a new exciting tactic every three to six months. And when it comes to ABM, when you're dealing with large accounts with long sales cycles, you have to be patient. And that also means just something basic like constant development. You need to design for nurturing flows and re-exposure. That is not just a one-off campaign, but something that lasts 12 months plus to keep nurturing those relationships. But thanks a lot, Andrea. We don't seem to have – we do have some questions. Yes? I don't see them. And I think they're coming up. No. Sorry, guys. There are questions in the chat, and they're super tiny from where I'm standing. So now I'll just do like this and then see. All right. Can you do ABM without a CRM? Yeah. Thanks. Much better. Without a CRM and without a marketing tool. Alessandro asks. And I would say that's going to be tough. You can do a small-scale pilot. But I like the idea. I have pulled off lead generation pilots with very low -tech setups where it's been Excel sheets and Outlook, most of it. So I'd say that's doable. But then what I like about it is the focus on demonstrating value. So it's better at least than trying to do the perfect starship of a scaled ABM approach where you have interfaces to clear bit cognizant and zoom info. And you have automated qualification and nurturing flows that are super sophisticated, if this, then that type of forks. Because that's what you'll very likely drown in. So the short answer is yes, but it's not going to scale. So then Rafael asks, what are the different dynamics for acquiring a new account versus maintaining an existing one? Okay. I have a long answer for that. The short version is for existing accounts, one of the main points is be super careful to not step on the toes of sales. If you can really violate their boundaries and get thrown out because sales is still king commercially in B2B. So I would say be very well-coordinated with sales. And you should be able to identify that based on their email address or that you have in CRM as well and their name. And, yeah, then there are elements of what's the channel. Try to leverage the fact that there's a relationship. So use what's called rep-triggered emails. So emails that seems like they're coming from a sales rep, but they're actually templated by marketing. And just make sure the sales rep signs off on them briefly on that. We have a few minutes more. Tanya asks, how much spend is enough to do a proper pilot and to gain the first learnings with ABM? Yeah. So, you know, typical politician answer is that it depends. But most of the pilots we've done have a range between 20,000 to 50,000 euros in paid media spend. In some cases, up to 100,000 in paid media spend. And I would say it depends on the availability of targeting options in software as a service. If you're dealing in tech, you can do a lot with Meta and LinkedIn. But if you're dealing in classic B2B manufacturing type of stuff like Wavin, you have to rely on a lot of other channels. Architects in Germany don't spend time on LinkedIn. If you're lucky, they have a profile and they never check their newsfeed. They just go to see who added them sometimes. So you need to be creative and look for trade media industry associations where you're going to need some more ad spend because you can't be as targeted as you can on social media. Cole asks, do you fear missing out on... And I just realized now that I'm not sure if these questions are for me or for Andrea. I'm just answering them. Andrea, how about I offer my perspective and then you can supplement. I just see a bunch of questions. Do you feel... Because this sounds like it's directed at you. Do you fear missing out on business? Not being in the upper funnel. Byron Sharp argues, this is how brands grow long term. So is ABM a short-sighted tactic? And let me offer my perspective and then you can supplement, Andrea. I think you should never do ABM as the only thing. I think there should always be a mix in your resource investments for marketing between branding and more direct tactics like lead generation and ABM. Although a spillover effect from a lot of the outreach you'll be doing from ABM is also brand awareness. But granted, it's narrower. So there's going to be some people you miss out on. Andrea, anything to... What's your perspective? No, absolutely. Absolutely agree with you. ABM is just one of all the activities that we're doing. Of course, we're just going to start piloting it. But we're also doing brand awareness campaigns. We're doing lead generation ongoing with always -on campaigns and significant product launches. And so we have a whole lot of activities. And ABM is just one additional, which we're hoping is the one that is going to help us more in the long term. Cool. All right. Time for one final question. And I'm sorry, guys. I can please reach out to me on email. And then I'll try to answer all the questions. Yanni asks, what is your recommendation experience with change management, aligning sales and marketing approaches? And here I really like the Wavin example because what we experienced was that we engaged with the local markets. And then with some clients, we do see that they don't really pick it up. They're not as motivated to pursue it. And here the local teams really did a great job of embracing this new approach. And sales leadership also reinforced the importance. So it sounds simple. But, you know, senior management buy-in in the local market is critical. Otherwise, it's going to fall to the ground. Anything to add in 30 seconds, Andrea? No, I would say what has helped us achieve that buy-in is that we're also supporting the business strategy. The business strategy of going upstream. So this is how marketing is liaising with sales to make that strategy happen. I totally agree with that. Guys, 30 seconds to go. Thank you so much. And especially to you, Andrea, for showing up. Super insightful. And perhaps can share in a few months with this gang when we have some results how all that panned out. Thank you for showing up and paying attention. And see you in the next webinar perhaps. Thank you.